So, how’s everyone holding up without fantasy baseball every day?  I don’t know what to do with myself!  This weekend I wandered into a Starbucks and told the coffeerista about Chris Tillman for 2015.  Then I laughed hysterically for a good twenty minutes until someone asked me to leave.  We’ve gone over the final 2014 fantasy baseball rankings for hitters and the top 20 starters.  There’s no more of these godforsaken recap posts left before we’re into 2015 fantasy baseball.  You’re welcome.  Well, there are Rudy’s recaps of every fantasy sites projections that are coming eventually and Sky’s “Is pitching that deep?” posts.  I, my over-the-internet friend, will be talking about 2015 rookies next.  Anyway, here’s the top 40 starters for 2014 fantasy baseball and how they compare to where I originally ranked them:

21. Cole Hamels – This will be a small recurring theme within this recap, I shouldn’t have panicked as much on spring training injuries to pitchers.  I liked Hamels and Iwakuma in the preseason, then they had arm injuries and I backed off.  Though on the other side of that is Mike Minor and Latos, two guys I also backed off on.  See, I was able to turn that around into a positive.  Your New Agey chakra shizz is working for me, Deepak!  Preseason Rank #31, 2014 Projections: 11-10/3.68/1.18/192, Final Numbers:  9-9/2.46/1.15/198

22. Hisashi Iwakuma – Hisashi my dashi — slurp SLURP!  One small note, Wade Davis had SP elginbaylorbility and ranked 22nd overall for pitchers on our Fantasy Baseball Player Rater, but since he was used in relief this past year, I skipped him in my recap.  Hisashi’s ERA was up a tad from his(ashi) 2.66 in 2013, but he was a better pitcher for the majority of the year until he flamed out at the end of the year due to an injury.  This is almost as raycess as saying Asians are good at math, which I personally find to be the least offending stereotype of all-time — Oh, no, they called me smart! — but the Asian import pitchers are proving themselves to be hella reliable.  Preseason Rank #33, 2014 Projections: 10-6/3.59/1.10/145, Final Numbers:  15-9/3.52/1.05/154

23. Doug Fister – For a guy with a name like Fister, you’d expect at least a few punch outs.  I guess it depends on your definition of ‘a few,’ but holy schnikeballs his Ks were low last year.  Jake Diekman and six other relievers had more Ks than Fister last year.  Fister’s Ks were so bad, I looked at two different sources to make sure there wasn’t a mistake.  There wasn’t.  Preseason Rank #32, 2014 Projections: 11-9/3.57/1.23/140, Final Numbers:  16-6/2.41/1.08/98

24. Sonny Gray – Hey it’s my boy!  Hey, boy!  Say hello to your mother for me.  Hey, your mother is my boo!  Hey, boo!  Gray could be put into the same category as Teheran from the top 20 starters.  Sure, he didn’t perform anywhere near as I would’ve hoped, yet he performed exactly as I hoped.  Uh-oh, I’ve painted myself into a logic corner.  Prepare for me to Dutch Boy my way out.  Gray’s K-rate dropped, walk rate went up, got lucky to have such a low ERA, so he didn’t pitch that well.  But for the stats that matter — ERA, WHIP, Ks and Wins, he was as good as advertised.  Preseason Rank #26, 2014 Projections: 13-7/3.32/1.17/195, Final Numbers:  14-10/3.08/1.19/183

25. Collin McHugh – The first of the “Holy shizzbird, what are they feeding Astros pitchers down there?”  By the by, Shizzbird reminded me of Yardbird by Charlie Parker, and I went to a screening the other night for Whiplash, which is about jazz.  Not sure if it’s out yet, but when it does come out, you should check it out.  Great movie, and it has Paul Reiser!  Okay, Reiser’s a reason you may not want to go, but you still should.  Yes, jazz is another reason you may not want to go, but seriously it’s good.  Unlike Keuchel, McHugh has terrific peripherals and solid stuff.  How did he come out of nowhere?  Well, he was on the Rockies, which is death for pitchers, and he was on the Mets, which is death for everything wonderful.  Preseason Unranked, Final Numbers:  11-9/2.73/1.09/157

26. Jered Weaver – Something I haven’t mentioned much of yet in the pitcher recaps (which is bizarre since I’ve mentioned a bunch of crap — I call these my recraps), I simply guess at a Wins projection in the preseason.  I mean, you can say the Angels will win games and Weaver should go deep into games, so Weaver should win games, but that’s still guessing.  There’s no accounting for run support.  Throw out Weaver’s extra four wins from his projections and you have a guy that is pretty yawnstipating.  His ERA was only 50th best, his WHIP only 35th best and his Ks only 36th best.  It was a decent season, but 26th overall is overstating his case.  Preseason Rank #35, 2014 Projections: 14-8/3.44/1.10/140, Final Numbers:  18-9/3.59/1.21/169

27. Matt Shoemaker – He had 16 wins and only started 20 games.  Granted, some of the wins came in middle relief, but The Cobbler would’ve challenged Denny McLain if he had 33 starts.  That’s challenging him to the live-ball single-season Wins record, not challenging McLain to a fight because Denny would beat his ass.  By the by, the bar manager should see 2014 and call over the bouncer if you’re checking IDs for being in the live-ball era.  Preseason Unranked, Final Numbers:  16-4/3.04/1.07/124

28. James Shields – At 32 years old, you don’t usually see many positive trends in peripherals for pitchers.  Usually all you see is velocity falling and the pitcher losing his stuff.  Shields is an anomaly.  His walk rate fell by almost a full walk per nine while everything stayed pretty close to the same.  He began to use his changeup more effectively in the 2nd half of the season and it helped bring him out of a real ugly May and June (4.70+ ERA).  In the end, this did nothing to his season stats.  Just was a bit of a roller coaster getting there.  Preseason Rank #23, 2014 Projections: 14-10/3.47/1.22/193, Final Numbers:  14-8/3.21/1.18/180

29. Masahiro Tanaka – Since I’m quick to point out where I’m right even though my ranking is wrong, I should point out that I was totally wrong on Tanaka even though his ranking ended pretty close to his preseason one.  If he would’ve stayed healthy all year, he would’ve been a top ten starter, maybe top five.  Too bad the Yankees only got two-thirds of a season from him for $250 million.  Oh, well, drop in the bucket!  Preseason Rank #27, 2014 Projections: 14-8/3.39/1.11/187, Final Numbers:  13-5/2.77/1.06/141

30. Jeff Samardzija – Alphabet Soup became a different pitcher last year.  It happens.  Or as the librarian says, “Shhh…it happens.”  He must’ve finally realized that if he was going to be successful he needed to cut back on his walks, even if it meant he was going to lose a few Ks.  His K-rate dropped, but his walk rate did too, so he ended up having the best year in his career.  Halleluzija!  Preseason Rank #61, 2014 Projections: 10-12/3.88/1.32/197, Final Numbers:  7-13/2.99/1.07/202

31. Alex Wood – Wanna reason Fredi Gonzalez should be fired besides the joke of leading off with B.J. like he was a Catholic school girl?  On May 10th, I wrote something like this, “Gavin Floyd is returning to the Braves so they’re moving Wood to the bullpen.  Eff me in the coolie.”  And that’s me paraphrasing me!  Yes, Fredi moved a top 30 starter to the bullpen, Grey says incredulously.  Preseason Rank #82, 2014 Projections: 8-2/3.71/1.31/141, Final Numbers:  11-11/2.78/1.14/170

32. Scott Kazmir – I was about to say it was nice to have a full season of Kazmir finally after five years of injury-shortened ones.  Then I saw his 5.42 post-All Star break ERA and I wonder if he was actually healthy in August (7.80 ERA) and September (4.35 ERA).  Methinks not.  Methinks methinks is my new favorite word, too.  Preseason Rank #76, 2014 Projections: 9-7/3.85/1.29/145, Final Numbers:  15-9/3.55/1.16/164

33. Dallas Keuchel – There’s no denying Keuchel went from “Who dat now?” to “Gimme gimme gimme some good love.”  His K-rate of 6.6 and 90 MPH fastball read to me more of a guy that just had his best season of his career.  In his first, no less.  Over so fast?  ‘Fraid so.  Preseason Unranked, Final Numbers:  12-9/2.93/1.18/146

34. Carlos Carrasco – There’s a case to be made that Carrasco shouldn’t have been included because a lot of his season was spent as a middle reliever.  I won’t be making that case, hence me including him in the rankings.  Carrasco was included in the top 100+ starters in the preseason, because I always liked him.  In Triple-A in 2013, he showed his nasty stuff, and at just about every minor league stop.  He was only barely ranked because his control was always terrible, and he was never any good in the majors.  This year, that obviously all changed like how one reacts to being sneezed on in the Dallas area has changed.  It went from “God bless you” to “EBOLA!  STOP, DUCK and ROLL!”  Preseason Rank #105, 2014 Projections: 5-9/4.31/1.35/112, Final Numbers:  8-7/2.55/0.99/140

35. Ian Kennedy – Seriously, you think I’m joking when I say on one team next year I’m drafting all Rockies hitters and Padres pitchers.  Preseason Unranked, Final Numbers:  13-13/3.63/1.29/207

36. Wily Peralta – How many wins is it fair to take away from Peralta because of luck?  Three?  Four?  Three?  Tricked you, I already suggested three!  You fell for the oldest trick in the book, mon!  Okay, let’s remove three wins since I suggested that twice (Arbitrary points!).  That means Wily would’ve earned $4.1 in wins rather than $6.8.  That difference means he was about as valuable as Ervin Santana, the 57th best starter.  Do you see how poisonous trusting wins can be?  Do you see how histrionic I’m being by saying poisonous?  Do you?!  Your turn to answer.  Preseason Rank #64, 2014 Projections: 12-11/3.94/1.34/142, Final Numbers:  17-11/3.53/1.30/154

37. Hyun-Jin Ryu – Hiroki Kuroda just texted me.  He wrote, “I used to be Ryu.”  Then an emoji on a park bench wearing a paper bag on its head.  No idea what that means.  Preseason Rank #43, 2014 Projections: 13-9/3.52/1.22/147, Final Numbers:  14-7/3.38/1.19/139

38. Wei-Yin Chen – See what I said about Peralta?  If you can’t, you might want to visit your eye doctor.  Okay, take what I said about Peralta and subtract four wins and you have…Itzhak Perlman!  Hmm, math’s wrong there, but you don’t have as good a pitcher as it appears Chen is.  Preseason Rank #98, 2014 Projections: 10-12/4.11/1.29/144, Final Numbers:  16-6/3.54/1.23/136

39. Alex Cobb – The Tampa Bay Peach didn’t reach the heights I set for him in the preseason, but he didn’t really do much worse either, if you were to add in an extra five starts that he missed due to injury.  Then you throw in the Rays only won four games in the 2nd half of the year (around that), and Cobb was actually much better if not accounting for wins.  Either way, I owned Cobb on a few teams, and he didn’t lose those leagues for me.  Thanks, Prince Fielder!  Preseason Rank #13, 2014 Projections: 15-6/2.96/1.09/189, Final Numbers:  10-9/2.87/1.14/149

40. R.A. Dickey – Some would look at Cobb and Dickey right next to each other and think they must’ve been sword fighting, but I think those people are just being coy.  R.A. Dickey?  Or R.U.A. Dickey?  That’s tricky, to rock (a rhyme) that’s right (on time).   It’s tricky.  Dickey’s problems after the Mets revolve around his control, which is ironic since his knuckler doesn’t revolve.  He’s lost a full walk per nine since his 2012 Cy Young year and with it he’s gone from a 2.73 ERA pitcher to a 3.70-ish one.  Maybe Dickey gets back that control, but I wouldn’t remove the splash guard from the toilet seat just yet.  Preseason Rank #48, 2014 Projections: 15-13/3.97/1.22/182, Final Numbers:  14-13/3.71/1.23/173

 
  1. The Theory says:
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    So wait, there’s not going to be a fantasy baseball 2014 for relief pitchers?

    You crush my heart with a vice.

    (Also, surprised Dickey made the top-40; I dumped him early on. That’s what I get, I guess!)

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      Haha… So sorry, I needed to draw the line at only so much wonderful

  2. JeF With 1 F says:
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    Sup Girl…looking forward to your top 20 commenters for 2014…Does Malicious Phenom qualify after the way he just left us at the alter in the playoffs?

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      HA!

  3. Ante GALIC says:
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    Grey!

    Thanks for all your efforts. Did I tell my story about the horse named ‘All my efforts’. I’ve got early Alzheimer’s disease so better safe than sorry. Here goes.

    1. I was at the track watching the ponies run by with my friend from work who was born in Jamaica. He bet on a pony named ‘All my efforts’. He lost his entire week’s salary on the race, crying ‘All my efforts’ repeatedly as he was shredding up his now-useless betting ticket.

    On the baseball front…

    2. There are some really bright gems in this 21-40 group. I had some eleven (11) of this group at some point on my rosters in all three leagues and I think this could be one of the keys to winning in fantasy. Recognizing the winners and then timely scooping them up before the rest of your league mates. Too simply put? Prolly, but I have early Alzheimer’s.

    3. On the flip side, there were several pitchers who had a better ADP than they actually performed – like Dickey, Hamels, Weaver, Fister (Fister? wouldn’t touch her!) and Ryu. Ryu and Hamels were injured so they get a mulligan. Still pretty high on Hamels.

    4. Think it could be end of greatness for Weaver though he is still trying to learn how to pitch with an 88-MPH fastball. Maybe he figures it out.

    Cheers,
    Ante

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      1. Hehe 2. Yup, you could’ve won some leagues with just these guys… 3. Fister? I hardly knew her! 4. Yeah, I wouldn’t bet on him doing it though

  4. El Famous Burrito says:
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    What do you think of Tanaka for next year? I got a guy in a dynasty league that’s peddling him hard. Obviously, he’s scared of the arm injury, but he’s asking for top players in return.

    I’m ignoring the ridiculous offers, because I believe he’ll miss most of 2015. At some point, though, the price is going to drop. I’m stuck between paying too much for a non-factor next year, and missing out on a potential deal for beyond 2015.

    How much would you give up for Tanaka?

    • jef with 1 f says:
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      @El Famous Burrito: If you cant get him cheap its not worth it…plenty of pitching around.

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      I wouldn’t mess with Tanaka for next year

  5. Charlie says:
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    What happened to Yu Darvish? Oversight or you really think guys like Ian Kennedy are better pitchers?

    • MattTruss

      MattTruss223 says:
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      @Charlie: Unbelievable…

      • J-FOH says:
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        @MattTruss223: what’s wrong Matt?

        • MattTruss

          MattTruss223 says:
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          @J-FOH: Just the fact people don’t read and actually think Grey is ranking Ian Kennedy ahead of Yu Darvish. People are just astounding sometimes is all.

          • J-FOH says:
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            @MattTruss223: get it all out bro, it’s a safe place…OK, not that safe, you might piss some people off but your heart is in the right place. Like a father who takes off his belt, it’s for their own good.

            • Mordacious Levator says:
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              @J-FOH: what you think the chances of a person that is guilty of what Truss is talking about reading this here, AND being mad about it? Those people (if they exist), don’t need to be pandered to.

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      An oversight if these were for next year

      • SwaggerJackers says:
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        @Grey: Charlie’s brain is an oversight.

        • Grey

          Grey says:
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          Ha

          • Wake Up says:
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            @Grey: Pull it out of the chocolate factory…Charlie…

  6. Ante GALIC says:
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    Grey!

    Damn, slow night at the office! Only 21 comments (including yours!!!). I remember in the dog days of August where you didn’t even ENTER the room until the comments got to AT LEAST 400.

    Man, the nerve of some people just up and vamoooshing after the fantasy baseball season is over!

    Cheers,
    Ante

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      Haha… Nature of the beast…

    • Militant Vegans says:
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      @Ante GALIC: Personally, I’m getting reacquainted with “Yacht Rock”. Now that’s comedy, folks!

  7. Hey Grey, grettings from the Emerald Isle..I have added my CBS link so when you click on my name you can see that team..

    Hey cheers Ante, all the best to ya man.

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      Cheers, can’t click the link as others have said…

  8. J-FOH says:
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    This is more of a Rudy question but I’ll throw it out there and you can let me know if I should e-mail him…why am I always uneasy about emailing him? Maybe it’s all those kids he has running around? Which poses a new quesion, Do you think one day Rudy might have a team of question answerers?

    Have you ever considered doing a rating independent of wins and in relation to the innings pitched? There would have to be a minimum innings limit and a way to weight more innings as a part of the evaluation. For example, a guy with 120 innings and a 2.75/1.08 would not be as valuable than a guy with a 2.95/1.12 at 225 innings. The assumption here is that the guy at 120 innings would have a higher probability to increase ERA/WHIP over those next 105 innings he would potentially pitch. This is loosely, and probably poorly based on some type of law of averages.

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      Very easy to remove Wins from the equation as I did above… If that’s what you mean…

      • J-FOH says:
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        @Grey: I see what you di with Weaver but a way to have definitive ranks independent of wins with a weighted system for innings pitch. I’ll e-mail Rudy.

        • Grey

          Grey says:
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          Okay cool

        • Sky

          Sky says:
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          I’m working through a similar post but on a monthly basis. Tune in tomorrow.

      • royce! says:
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        @Grey: If you completely remove wins from the equation using the player rater, Kuroda and Weaver had identical values. Kuroda was ranked 86th for pitchers, so that’s nuts.

        While trying to figure this out, chrome informed me that the 2014 MLB Pitching Stats – Season To Date page is in Indonesian. I’m going to accept its offer to translate the page…nothing changed. I can read Indonesian, apparently!

        • Grey

          Grey says:
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          Yeah, Rudy’s playing around with doing things in Indonesian… Sri Lanka loves Giancarlo!

        • J-FOH says:
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          @royce!: Grey is huge in Bandung

        • @royce!: Weird about the Indonesian. Yeah, Weaver’s year was rather blah across the board except for the Wins. Kuroda was similarly blah except his WHIP helped trade off vs. Weaver’s better K’s and ERA.

    • It’s probably best to comment and then e-mail me a heads up about it.

      The ERA/WHIP Point Shares take innings into account. So a 2.00 ERA across 100 innings is worth less than across 200 innings. The way it works is you take the ‘average’ pitching team (my projection for a team who finishes b/w 6th/7th in a 12-team league) and replace an average rostered SP’s performance with that pitcher. The more the team ERA goes down, the more ERA Point Shares (and $ contribution) they get.

      You can take the Player Rater values and either subtract the Win $ or weigh it down (say multiply by 50%) if you wanted a more Win-independent ranking.

      Hope that helps…

      • J-FOH says:
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        @Rudy Gamble: thanks Rudy, I never rank based on wins and I’ll mess with the numbers to get a better value for what I like to do.

        I’ll e-mail you anymore questions.

        • the one thing i’d note on Wins is that – if you look at the Ombotsman – you’ll see that it predicts Wins for a given game about as well as ERA/WHIP. i think projections do a pretty good job with Wins – enough that I don’t see a reason why they shouldn’t be factored in (unless you play in a league where Wins aren’t a category).

  9. J-FOH says:
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    I, my over-the-internet friend, will be talking about 2015 rookies next

    Is this the windowless van portion of the off season?

    • Grey

      Grey says:
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      So, you can italicize, just not embed… No idea what this means…

      • J-FOH says:
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        @Grey: Steve taught me how to italicize. Rookies are young boys and windowless vans are for trolling them

        • Grey

          Grey says:
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          Ah… Yes, I’m about to bring out some candy on the fishing pole…

          • J-FOH says:
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            @Grey: a douchy fo-hawky rooster cut might be a good idea too

  10. Sky

    Sky says:
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    Man, wins mustve knocked Jake Arrieta pretty far down. I would’ve thought 156.2 IP of his ratios would’ve put him in the top 40 easy.

    And there’s my Kaz. Muah!

    • J-FOH says:
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      @Sky: damn, are you OK, nothing gets past you

      • Sky

        Sky says:
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        Cofee hadn’t kicked yet, apparently.

        • Grey

          Grey says:
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          It’s coffee, take a nap!

          • Sky

            Sky says:
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            Actually quad shot latte. From Dutch Bros. And it’s awesome

            • Grey

              Grey says:
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              That sounds good… All I got is this Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf…

              • Sky

                Sky says:
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                Name dropper

                • Grey

                  Grey says:
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                  Peet’s!

                  • J-FOH says:
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                    @Grey: I love me some Peet’s, isn’t that where we went on our man date?

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      It’s where Cougs and I went on our first date too… Coincidence?

                  • Sky

                    Sky says:
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                    Nah man, pass dat Dutch! Sounds like I could open one down there and charge 5 times the amount we do up here. Cash money!

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Yeah, never heard of it… Assuming it’ll make its way down here… Now up to you to be the first to franchise it in SoCal

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      Speaking of franchises…when we were in Vegas, I noticed a lack of quick/easy access to good beer. Seriously, so many people walking down the strip with bottle of Bud, so sad. Idea similar to Fat Tuesdays (basically adult beverage slushies you buy in hard plastic containers and walk the strip with) but instead have a wall of good beer on tap; no food, no seating area. Just come in, fill up and leave and charge more then you should for it, of course. Totally think that idea would gain traction, especially since the city is moving to put ordinances against bottles on the strip.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      I agree, I could see it gaining traction, but feels more of an inside sports are of a casino type thing… I think the majority the people walking the strip, want cheap that will get them drunk…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      It was about $15 for a watered down daquiri when you included the price of the cup. You can’t water down a 7% beer. 16 oz for about $7.50 ($10 with refillable mug maybe) could do the trick. It would definitely cater to a particular market.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      A market that isn’t streaming out on the strip dancing to honkytonk… A crowd that’s in a casino watching sports… My feel for it, at least

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      That first sentence tells me so much about what you do in Vegas…

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      I’ve been to Vegas four three days and never left my hotel…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      four three…greatest writer ever!

                      That’s, seriously, alotta cocaine bro.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Ha

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      The branding part would be the key: separating yourself from the heathens wandering the streets with inferior beer. Beer Snobbery, if you will. Billy Zane in a dazzling Hef’esque robe pitching it to you from his den in a 30 second commercial spot would get the point across, I think.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      You prolly noticed that there’s a different clientele in hotels (cosmo, Aria, etc) then is wandering the streets… I think it’s because from November to Feb, it’s cold and from June until Sept. it’s brutally hot…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      For sure but also, clientele can change when they know something is out there for them. You didn’t know you wanted an iphone until you got one.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Hmm…Not sure I buy that example… An iPhone doesn’t force me to venture out in 110 degree heat and then venture back to my hotel for everything else… Not saying it can’t be done, but I think the clientele you’d need for a microbrewery in Vegas wants a certain convenience… Also, who’s to say it’s not there in some form? I went to Todd English’s Pub with Rudy one time and it had a huge selection of beer and was in a hotel…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      The example was strictly based on ‘you didn’t know you wanted it until you had it’. And just as a clarifier: not starting a brewery, micro or no. Offering good beer on tap from various brewers is the idea and putting it on the strip for quick in and out beer. Not sure how much more convenient you can get than coming into an establishment that sells beer you can walk out with. Maybe I’m reading that wrong. But the point being is you can also sell growlers – 64 ounce containers – that you can take back to your hotel while you’re doing lines. Seriously, 3 days in your hotel room? Why did you even go?!?

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Haha… Did I say 3 days in the room? Might’ve misspoke, but I’ve been three days in one hotel, not the room… When you stay at some of these hotels, you don’t need to leave all weekend… Casino, pool, casino, dinner, club, rinse, repeat all in one hotel… I can’t be the only person that does this, I’d say that at least half of people go to Vegas and never hit the strip… What I’ve found is there is no quick in and out on the strip… To get there takes 30 minutes if you’re close to your destination, and you’re never close… Not saying it can’t work, it probably could, but the strip is mostly tourists and they want cheap, novelty crap…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      I knew what you were saying but it was too much fun to let go of. I was picturing a particular ‘The Wolf of Wall Street’ scene when you mispoke.

                      I don’t know about your tourist stance about it being cheap. You don’t walk the strip to find cheap. We’ll see. Fat Tuesdays seemed to be doing quite well. You’re open basically 24 hours a day like every other place. You don’t have to be out getting beer in the heat of it all, you could stumble in at 2 am. It’s basically the Fat Tuesdays model but with beer. Have you seen/been to a Fat Tuesdays? Might give a bit better idea of where I was going with this.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      I like to put coke in Cougs anal cavity and sniff… Yeah, Fat Tuesdays with good beer makes total sense, and better for me to understand where you were going… But the problem I still have is you’re talking different audiences (assuming I understand the ‘good beer audience’ which I might not)…. Fat Tuesdays gives cheap/college kids crap alcohol in large quantities for cheap… A good beer audience I imagine wanting to sit down, have a decent food and watch a game… That audience is more in the hotels… Ah, the offseason, 400-word treatises about a hypothetical beer concept…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      Ha! You can pitch it the right way, though. Again, it’s the branding part to me. You go the beer snob route, you put a mustache on the cups and a monocle on the mug. Setting yourself apart from your friends, yadda yadda. It has to be a total package concept; ‘go get shitfaced’ is a Vegas staple. Getting shitfaced with style – even if its tongue in cheek (hence my Billy Zane reference) – can play well if done right. And actually, my initial thought about the idea was to start in a suburb with a beer only place but with seating. Establish there, open a Fat Tuesdays-esque one on the strip once it gained local traction. But again, that’s for me and my lawyer to talk about when I present the business plan.

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Haha… Fair enough… I think with the right marketing it could work, it’s just now an obvious missing element on the strip (though you can prove it’s missing)… To me it’s like putting it on Bourbon St., people want $5 Hurricanes, not $7 Amber ale (BTW, I am so not the audience for any of this)…

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      Yeah, was about to say, I couldn’t picture you going and if you did…well, you’re banned so you can’t anyway. We got standards!

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Aw, man!

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      Don’t worry, I’ll sneak you a brew

                    • Grey

                      Grey says:
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                      Thanks, brother man!

                    • J-FOH says:
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                      @Sky: I told you when I was up there we need that, but the space is an issue here. They would argue we need the 8 parking spaces more than drive thru coffee

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      And it would all need to be valet

                    • J-FOH says:
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                      @Sky: don’t confuse grey’s in LA world with my world.

                    • Sky

                      Sky says:
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                      He lives the Bel Air life, you live the Fresh Prince of Bel Air life…if he stayed in Philly