I have a confession, there’s no easy way to do these sleeper posts.  A sleeper in a 15 team league is undraftable in a 10 team league.  A sleeper in a 10 team league is muy obviousmente in a 15 team league.  Last year, I got some guff for calling Carlos Gonzalez a sleeper because everyone in anything deeper than a 10 team league knew about him.  In a ten team league, people were excited to know about him.  I mention this because I feel Drew Stubbs is in the same boat this year.  Last year, he put up a line of 91/22/77/.255/30.  To think a guy who went 22/30 is a sleeper is laughable in some leagues.  If you’re in a 15 team league and you don’t know about Drew Stubbs, well, to paraphrase Walter Sobchak, you’re out of your league, Donny.  So if you know all about Drew Stubbs, skip ahead to the comments and compliment me on the fullness of my mustache.  If you’d like to know why Drew Stubbs is a 2011 fantasy baseball sleeper, read the next paragraph.

It’s no secret; I love guys who only hurt you with a low average.  You obviously don’t want a ton of these guys on the same team.  I’m not here to tell you to punt average.  It’s just average is crazy fickle and a .240 hitter is easily a .275 hitter with a few more bloop singles.  Then you get a guy whose speed is off the charts.  A guy whose speed is tied with Jose Reyes and just off Michael Bourn on Bill James’ Speed Score and is top five for all of baseball.  In 550 ABs, if Stubbs has 130 hits and beats out an extra 10 infield singles, his average goes from .236 to .255.  Ten infield hits is nothing for a guy with his speed.  Last year, he only had 18, but Hunter Pence had 31 and Jeter had 26.  They are decidedly obviously whateverly slower, but they do hit more ground balls.  So I’m not saying he will hit for a better average, but it’s possible with a little luck.  Stubbs tends to hit the ball in the air, which is good and bad.  He doesn’t always utilize his speed as much, but he hits a bunch of homers.  The minor league numbers don’t scream power, but he’s showing it and I’m willing to believe it will continue.  A line of 95/18/65/.260/32 doesn’t seem farfetched.  That’s a top 20 outfielder who will be drafted after the top 20 outfielders and will be a fantasy sleeper next year.  Oh, and the 2011 rankings come Monday, prepare your Moose Munch.

  1. Terrence Mann says:

    I’m pretty sure Walter said Donny was out of his element, not out of his league. All this proves is that I smoked a lot more weed than you in college. Anyway, here is the team I ended up with in the 4th razz mock:

    1B Ryan Howard PHI R2 P3
    1B Carlos Pena CHC R10 P3
    2B Brandon Phillips CIN R5 P10
    3B Casey McGehee MIL R9 P10
    SS Jimmy Rollins PHI R3 P10
    SS Yunel Escobar TOR R23 P10
    C Buster Posey SF R4 P3
    OF Josh Hamilton TEX R1 P10
    OF Michael Stanton FLA R6 P3
    OF Chris Young ARI R8 P3
    OF Bobby Abreu ANA R13 P10
    OF Tyler Colvin CHC R20 P3
    OF Garrett Jones PIT R21 P10
    OF Logan Morrison FLA R22 P3
    OF Franklin Gutierrez SEA R25 P10
    SP Roy Oswalt PHI R7 P10
    SP Ricky Romero TOR R11 P10
    SP Gio Gonzalez OAK R14 P3
    SP Jorge De La Rosa COL R15 P10
    SP Johnny Cueto CIN R17 P10
    SP Carlos Zambrano CHC R18 P3
    SP Justin Masterson CLE R24 P3
    RP Andrew Bailey OAK R12 P3
    RP Huston Street COL R16 P3
    RP David Aardsma SEA R19 P10

    Somehow, these mocks keep getting tougher. I know my average is gonna be low with this team and might need a speed infusion, too. I was really happy with the idea of starting a team with Howard and Hamilton. But the third and fourth round picks drafting tenth were killer. wily mo threw up his hands and took Greinke one pick after I basically did the same and took Posey in the 4th. With the extra roster spots, I’d like to have more pitching instead of all those outfielders but the rest of the guys cleared every decent pitcher off the board. In retrospect, I shoulda grabbed a 7th starter in round 21. I can’t imagine going into a real league knowing I have to play Masterson at all. Guys that I was getting in earlier mocks like Chacin, Kuroda, and Hudson got snapped up quick. I’m looking forward to ideas on pitchers you like later in the draft, Grey.

  2. Asdrubal Bastardo says:

    Oh my, your mustache is very full, good sir.

  3. Steve says:

    I’m typing this on my phone. I’m camped outside my local Razzball outlet so I can be the first in the world to get the 2011 rankings.

  4. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Terrence Mann: That’s why I wrote paraphrase (after you pointed out I misquoted him, thanks for the correction!) Your outfield is wonky and your average would be low. I don’t mind your pitching, it is a bit risky. Masterson wouldn’t stay on your team anyway, so I don’t count him. First Matsui, now Bannister? Say it ain’t so. We may need to allow drafting of Japanese league players.

    @Asdrubal Bastardo: Why thank you.

    @Steve: I don’t know, Steve. You weren’t the first to get the Drew Stubbs sleeper post. You give it your all though, all anyone can ask.

  5. old rungo says:

    can’t wait for 2011 rankings.
    Questions: how long till Barry Larkin is in the hall? 1 year or 2?
    Also- is Hamilton really getting drafted in front of Howard this year?
    Finally- had Stubbs on my team last year, you wanted to hit him in the face nearly ever week for his lack of production, but then he’d crush it for a couple weeks,and you couldn’t really argue with his end of the year numbers- especially for a late pick.

  6. Grey

    Grey says:

    @old rungo: 2 years. Hamilton’s one of those guys that everyone is dying to love.

  7. Although the stache looks identical to prior seasons, it remains quite ample. Great anticipation for the rankings Grey. Thanks in advance.

  8. SkiWizard says:

    Hey Grey, how does this team look? First mock of the year

    C Matt Wieters BAL R13 P5
    1B Adrian Gonzalez BOS R1 P5
    1B Prince Fielder MIL R2 P6
    1B Kevin Youkilis BOS R3 P5
    2B Aaron Hill TOR R16 P6
    SS Elvis Andrus TEX R7 P5
    SS Alcides Escobar KC R23 P5
    3B Ian Stewart COL R11 P5
    3B Mark Reynolds BAL R14 P6
    OF Justin Upton ARI R4 P6
    OF Brett Gardner NYY R18 P6
    OF Dexter Fowler COL R19 P5
    OF Austin Jackson DET R21 P5
    OF Luke Scott BAL R22 P6
    SP Zack Greinke MIL R5 P5
    SP Clayton Kershaw LA R6 P6
    SP Tommy Hanson ATL R8 P6
    SP Francisco Liriano MIN R9 P5
    SP Jorge De La Rosa COL R12 P6
    SP Philip Hughes NYY R17 P5
    SP Ian Kennedy ARI R20 P6
    RP Heath Bell SD R10 P6
    RP Huston Street


  9. John A. Boehnerz says:

    Grey, wonder what you think of this trade. 12 team league 5×5, each team keeps up to 10 guys and I have 11-12 legit options.

    I have:


    D. Hudson

    The trade I may make is:

    Teix, Lester and Weeks for AGon and Crawford. If I did this I’d ditch Pagan and keep Hudson. Whatcha think?

  10. Stephen

    Stephen says:

    @Grey: I believe Stubbs saw the same hitting instructor that “turned” Ben Zobrist around. I think Stubbs will have a similar drop in production that Zobrist displayed in 2010. I still like Stubbs, just I put caution in my expectations of him.

  11. polczek5 says:

    the fullness of your mustache makes me feel like less of a man…

  12. polczek5 says:

    @John A. Boehnerz: if that trade is on the table, pull the trigger!

  13. polczek5 says:

    can someone post/link the results of last night’s mock draft? couldn’t make it, but would love to see how it played out…

  14. Cole says:

    My team from the Razz Mock last night
    C: M. Napoli
    1B: M Cabrera
    2B: R. Weeks
    3B: M. Young
    OF: J. Upton
    OF: A. McCutchen
    OF: B. Upton
    OF: A. Lind
    OF: A. Torres
    CI: C. Lee
    U: D. Ortiz
    P: R. Halladay
    P: Y. Gallardo
    P: R. Dempster
    P: J. Vazquez

    Then I had to go milk my cows so auto-draft got me a bunch of misfit toys. But how does this team look as of round 17?

  15. Tony says:

    @Stephen: @Grey: Where are you guys thinking Stubbs should go in a standard 12 teamer? Whats his ADP @ anyone with that question…..

    I’m just never a fan of a guy that hits for so low of average, and i read everything greys saying and I’m a believer guys can sway 20-30 points either way in batting avg each year, i guess when taking stubbs like characters they must be grouped with high average cats like mauer/pujols/mark reynolds, kidding kidding…. but there’s just something about this guy, he has never hit for power in the minors?

    3 HR’s in 107 games before his call up in 2009
    7HR’s in 131 games 548 AB’s total

    In his 4 seasons in the minors he had 28 HRS, and 23 of them were vs. SINGLE A teams. Then last year he hits 22 in the bigs? Maybe he is maturing and developing physically, but I guess I need another year to see unless he’s going past the 13-14th ish rounds I doubt I’m owning him.

    Unless He has developed I think he’s more of a 12/30 SB guy with a low average…. which can be useful, im just not going bat shit crazy for him.

  16. Al Swedgin says:

    Hi Grey, I sent you a ton of keeper lists for comparison a couple weeks ago.

    I have less depth than I thought, but I’m still looking pretty good.

    The team with Hanley seems short on depth, so I’m looking to target him.

    These are the 5 I think I’ll probably keep:


    which means I’ll lose these three to auction anyway:


    I was thinking of offering Kemp + Carp for Hanley. Is that fair, or insulting? Or really he could take Kemp + any (or even all?) of the other three.

    By the way, the reason I’m favoring Cutch is because of his age (2 yrs younger) and also because the league has 8 cats (standard 5 + BB, K, and H – Cutch has the advantage across that board, I think).

    Here are the opponents choice of 8 kprs, BTW:

    B Phillips

    I guess he would then keep

    Hm. He’s not quite as shallow as I though, but I think might be an upgrade.

  17. GopherDay says:

    @polczek5: Ditto.

    @Eddy: A Razzball Rankings Eve mock (Sunday) would be great for me!

  18. Stephen

    Stephen says:

    @Tony: That would be my expectations of Stubbs .255 with 12/30. However, average is more fickle than woman. So there is that.

  19. Tony says:

    grey did you say 2011 rankings monday, oh man my pants just got tight….

  20. Tony says:

    @Stephen: lol where would you look to take him then? round what? 12 teamer…

  21. Terrence Mann says:

    @old rungo: At the point I was drafting, I knew I wanted power OF/1B. Tex, Howard, and Fielder were all still there at 1.10. If I would have taken Howard with my first pick, I was risking having Holliday or Crawford as the best outfielders available with my second pick. I’d much rather have Hamilton and Fielder than Howard and Holliday.

    Actually, to qualify that, I’d probably have taken CarGo with my first pick and whoever was left at 1B with my second pick – but I’m trying to make Grey say, “Now, that’s a great draft!” At this point, I’m resigned to the idea that Grey will never like one of my drafts as long as Abreu is on the roster – even if I get him at the end of the 13th.

  22. Al Swedgin says:

    Grey you probably won’t see this in time, but don’t bother responding to the above. He already rejected it. :) That makes sense. Carp just isn’t a big enough upgrade over who he would have to drop. And Kemp has certainly lost his luster. Oh well. I still like my chances.

  23. Bob says:

    The fullness of your mustache is without peer.

    I can’t wait for the 2011 rankings.

  24. Bob says:

    @Mock Drafters: I would participate, but the interface doesn’t work properly on the Mac, as the eligible players list seems to rotate downward, leaving the top available players out of my view. I will do some mock drafting once ESPN and/or Yahoo gets online.

  25. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: You’d rather have an underacheiving Fat Prince Fielder and an Injury prone ex-junky Hamilton than the predictable solid HOWARD & HOLLIDAY? Can I ask why? Thats wanting 2 solids vs. 2 unpredictables with lots of upside. Don’t get me wrong I like all 4 players, and if Hammy bats .350 and is healthy all year and if Prince hits 50 HR’s and bats. .290 its all good, but I’ll quote someone from last year that i can’t remember their name to give them credit but “If “ifs” were 5ths we’d all be drunk!”

    Gimme Howard and Holliday.

  26. JoeC says:

    But… that mustache is spectacular.

    Don’t get excited though… no homo.

    On a lighter note (as opposed to that mustache as thick as a milkshake), Stubbbbbsssss has a big, fat target on his back in this year’s draft and I’m the one holding the deer rifle. HE WILL BE MINE! Or I will be extremely, irretrievably… vexed.

  27. joe from pt pleasant says:

    I think that Stubbs actually outproduces your prediction. For a guy of his size, that has the type of approach that he does to hitting, I cannot see any less than 18 hrs, and I think he has the potential for 25. I also think the steals have potential to rise also to as many as 40, but i think 30 is a very safe projection. I have followed Stubbs closely from the low minors and every coach he has ever had tried to teach him to hit the ball on the ground despite the power he obviously displayed in BP. The club was grooming him to be a leadoff man, so he did what he needed to in order to advance to the next level, but every scout that has ever seen him knew that the power would eventually be unleashed. .260 83 R 23 HR 82 RBI 32 SB is my projection for stubbs this year, and I believe he will be hitting 6th or 7th all season.

  28. brad says:

    Garza to Cubs (potentially) yes please.

  29. brad says:

    sounds official now

  30. GopherDay says:

    Cubs to acquire Matt Garza…Value goes up now that he goes from the AL East to the NL Central.

  31. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: Yeah, I wanted the power. No way is Holliday worth the 15th pick. I ended up with basically what I wanted. Both Hamilton and Howard. Howard has been available a little bit later this year. Grey got him 19th in the yahoo ‘pert mock.

  32. mapwheel says:

    You can thank the Cubs for Stubbs’s awesome line last year. His splits against them:

    in 57ABs: 14/5/16/7/.333

    Too bad he can’t play a whole season against the Cubs; he’d be on pace for 45 home runs and 60 steals.

  33. Black Beard says:

    Wow, the Rays got a nice package for Garza: pitcher Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld. Doesn’t look like any of these guys have been covered here on Razzball, but after doing a quick check around elsewhere seems like 3 of these guys were top ten in their system. How do the Rays manage to do this?

  34. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: Howard is on the bad side of 30, and last year might have been a little sneak peak at the power trending down…. I know he missed 17 games, but 31 HR’s after 4 consecutive years of 45+? He could just as easily hit 50 again this yr lol… cust kayin tho…..

    @joe from pt pleasant: What scouts said Stubbs will have tremendous power? BATTING PRACTICE POWER? lol thats what we’re basing this statement on??? I know ESPN called him the next Grady Sizemore last year HA! I dont know if thats a compliment or not and i’m a cleveland fan, but how does 1847 minor league AB’s and ONLY 28 HR’s equate to the scouts thinking he’ll have power in the bigs? And like I mentioned above 23 of those were vs. SINGLE A pitching…. seriously thats one step above High School. He was 21-24 years old then, so i do see where he could have developed physically some, but I’m just not sold. He did have 22 in the bigs last year, but we could name a million players who’ve hit a good amount (bautista, beltre, corey hart, cbyoung, etc etc etc) who have disappointed the next year… as a later sleeper sure…. not banking on some of these predictions tho….

  35. pjtres says:

    is kemp that much more valuable in h2h keeper than mccutch? or could you justify an either or

  36. JoeC says:

    I guess Hellickson’s value just went up.

  37. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Tony: Ha

    @Cole: Pitching looks strong, probably too strong and your hitting looks power weak and speed heavy.

    @Bob: Thank you, sir.

    @JoeC: Ha

    @joe from pt pleasant: Hope you’re right.

    @brad: Thanks for the heads up!

    @mapwheel: That would be nice.

    @Black Beard: Why do you think they took Devil off the name? Throw people off the scent.

    @pjtres: I’d want Kemp over The Dread Pirate.

    @JoeC: Why, he matured a full season?

  38. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: Where you going with all this, Tony? First, you tell me you want Howard’s consistency. Now, his power may be trending down. WTF?

    The way I see it, there’s a tier of outfielders with Hamilton, CarGo, and Braun. The next tier is Holliday, Crawford, and maybe Kemp.

    At 1B there’s a tier with Howard, AGon, Tex, and Fielder. The power guys. After that, you’re looking at Youk, Morales, Morneau, etc.

    My only goal with the tenth pick was to get a 1B and an OF from those top tiers. The dropoff gets pretty big pretty quick.

    Have you done any of the mocks yet? It seems much more difficult to draft than last year, for whatever reason. One thing I have noticed is that after the top OF, a lot of the players seem to be almost interchangable. For example, Delmon Young went 7.7 last night and I got Colvin at 20.3. I’m not saying Colvin is the same player as Delmon but the dropoff doesn’t seem very big relative to other positions.

  39. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: haven’t gotten in any mocks yet, IM BEHIND THIS YEAR LOL.

    I really dont know what to think of Howard, I think he may be trending down some, its gotta be expected to happen soon, but I dont think he’s a 30 HR guy now either! I do however have more faith in him than Prince (yes i took prince last year in my RCL and i hate him now). Power’s not the only thing I was referring to in Howards consistency, he’s still gonna score a ton of runs 100+ and drive in 100+ rbi’s. And if your league is H2H you want Howard in August and September.

  40. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: And you’re saying you feel quality OF’s are shallow after the top tier?

  41. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: Well, by the time my 3.10 pick rolled around I was hoping for Soo Choo, Upton, or Cruz. All of them were gone. So, I sighed and took Jimmy Rollins – who I really had no desire to draft. I guess my point is that after the top Hamilton tier, there’s the Soo Choo/Upton/Cruz tier. Then, it gets dicey.

    A better example of the dropoff and then massive depth may be the fact that Ethier was taken 4.9 last night. Look at his stats vs. Colvin (who I got 15 rounds later) in 2010:

    Ethier 71/23/82/2/.292 in 517 ABs
    Colvin 60/20/56/6/.254 in 354 ABs

  42. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: wow choo is going by the 3rd round now? son of a bee sting… i really need to do a mock, i think my head is going to hurt lol, i had probably 20 in by now last year, that might be a low estimate too!

    Is that BJ upton or Justin you’re saying?

  43. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: J-Upside. BJ lasted until 6.11. In the earlier drafts, drafters were complaining how OF sucks this year. It doesn’t suck, it’s SUPER deep. But like I said, there is a top tier with Hamilton, a second tier with Soo Choo, and then everybody else. I spent a 6th round pick on Stanton because I wanted his power but it wouldn’t be unreasonable to wait on drafting your whole outfield near the end of the draft. Lots of guys like Torres, Ludwick, Austin Jackson, Carlos Lee, Cuddyer, Snider, Span are always going to be available very late.

  44. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: thanks…. who would you consider top tier then right now? hammy, braun, cargo, kemp, and ? In a 5 OF’er league I can see some problems filling a good OF in… although as players emerge more will be OF’ers than any other position. Usually.

  45. Tony says:

    @Terrence Mann: its good to get some real baseball/draft talk going on…. i gotta do a mock this weekend, i feel left out LOL…

  46. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: Yeah, I see that as the top tier. I don’t like Kemp and would lump him in with Crawford and Holliday. Then the Cruz tier. Then Heyward, McCutcheon, and Ethier. Then, it’s pretty crazy. I grabbed Stanton in the 6th and Krispie in the 8th and was pretty happy with that until Grey said my OF was wonky.

  47. Terrence Mann says:

    @Grey: Why is my OF wonky? I need to know these things. I could have taken Nyjer late as a SAGNOF but thought my speed might be OK as is. I took FraGu with my last pick of the draft simply because there was no draftable pitcher I saw.

  48. Terrence Mann says:

    @Tony: The guys in the mocks have been killer. wily mo, Gopher Day, Eddy, Smokey, basically everybody is aiming for the same guys and it’s cut throat. I told them last night no way in hell am I playing in a money RCL. They’re too damn good. I’ll practice against the Razzers and find somebody else to play for $$$

  49. Eddy says:


    It can’t be the Mac itself. I’ve been conducting all my mocks on my MacBook Pro since day 1. Perhaps some other issue?

    Wanted to get some feedback on my team Grey. First time I take Longoria (You know I didn’t realize he’s only 25?!).

    Player Team Acquired
    1B Kendry Morales ANA R4 P10
    2B Aaron Hill TOR R8 P10
    MI Gordon Beckham CHW R15 P3
    BN Sean Rodriguez TB R24 P10
    3B Evan Longoria TB R1 P3
    CI David Freese STL R20 P10
    SS Elvis Andrus TEX R7 P3
    C Chris Iannetta COL R21 P3
    OF Matt Holliday STL R2 P10
    OF Matt Kemp LA R3 P3
    OF Hunter Pence HOU R6 P10
    OF Mitch Moreland TEX R17 P3
    OF Travis Snider TOR R18 P10
    Util Jose Tabata PIT R19 P3
    SP CC Sabathia NYY R5 P3
    SP Shaun Marcum MIL R9 P3
    SP Jonathan Sanchez SF R11 P3
    SP Jhoulys Chacin COL R12 P10
    SP Ricky Nolasco FLA R13 P3
    SP Jordan Zimmermann WAS R22 P10
    SP Jonathon Niese NYM R23 P3
    RP Heath Bell SD R10 P10
    RP Jonathan Broxton LA R14 P10
    RP Ryan Franklin STL R16 P10
    RP Clay Hensley FLA R25 P3

    By the way, any possible chance for an Friday afternoon/ Saturday bonus write-up concerning the Garza trade? I know he’s someone you’ve hated because of his tendency to be terrible against bad teams and vice-versa, but a move to the NL can only do him good no?

    ****Razzball Rankings Eve Mock is up! Takes place Jan.9th at 7pm EST. Password is Sushi (the “s” is capitalized).****

  50. Eddy says:

    @Terrence Mann:

    Haha, I already told you man, the best thing you could do is practice with us! That way when you play with friends or random people on Yahoo, ESPN, or CBS, you will literally land EVERY SINGLE RAZZBALL FAVORITE. No joke.

    Keep on doing these razzball mocks, especially as rankings come out, and you’ll see how much you dominate your real drafts.

  51. RonRon says:

    Thoughts on my team appreciated. Matt Capps pick was a major mistake. Realize that wasn’t in my best interest.

    Pos Name Team Pick
    C Matt Wieters BAL R10 P1 Comment
    1B Mark Teixeira NYY R2 P1 Comment
    2B Ian Kinsler TEX R4 P1 Comment
    2B Martin Prado ATL R9 P12 Comment
    SS Mike Aviles KC R14 P1 Comment
    SS Jed Lowrie BOS R24 P1 Comment
    3B Pedro Alvarez PIT R7 P12 Comment
    OF Carl Crawford BOS R1 P12 Comment
    OF Colby Rasmus STL R5 P12 Comment
    OF Grady Sizemore CLE R8 P1 Comment
    OF Adam Jones BAL R11 P12 Comment
    OF Carlos Beltran NYM R17 P12 Comment
    OF Dexter Fowler COL R23 P12 Comment
    SP Jon Lester BOS R3 P12 Comment
    SP Josh Johnson FLA R6 P1 Comment
    SP Max Scherzer DET R12 P1 Comment
    SP Philip Hughes NYY R13 P12 Comment
    SP Aaron Harang SD R18 P1 Comment
    SP Kevin Slowey MIN R20 P1 Comment
    SP Jaime Garcia STL R22 P1 Comment
    SP Andy Pettitte FA R25 P12 Comment
    RP Octavio Dotel TOR R15 P12 Comment
    RP Matt Capps MIN R16 P1 Comment
    RP Joel Hanrahan PIT R19 P12 Comment
    RP Brandon Lyon HOU R21 P12 Comment

  52. Steve says:

    @Grey: Ah, but the first time I *looked* at the post, there were no comments, so I probably was first (emoticon).
    I just hadn’t thought of the hilarious gag yet.

  53. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Grey: My mock from last night (from 11 hole) (scooped>brain lock>burnett an autopick); where to upgrade?

    C Santana R10
    1B Konerko R5
    2B Uggla R4
    3B Bautista R3
    SS Drew R9
    MI Espinosa R16
    CI Smoak R19
    OF Cargo R1
    OF Braun R2
    OF Raburn R13
    OF Pagan R17
    OF Crisp R18
    UT Allen R20
    SP Jimenez R6
    SP Wandy R8
    SP T Hudson R11
    SP Kuroda R14
    SP Burnett R22
    RP Marmol R7
    RP Feliz R12
    RP Thornton R15
    RP Putz R21

    Pass on C Santana for late catcher?
    Thinking Crisp a throwaway; suggestions for some pop there?
    Didn’t need to go so early on RP this draft.

  54. joe from pt pleasant says:

    @Tony: I dont know if you’ve watched him play at all or if you are just reading a bunch of stats of a computer screen but i can tell u everything about him.

    Drew Stubbs is extremely tall. At younger ages he was also much skinnier than he is now. Mechanically, his swing is a longer than most mainly because his arms are very long and this is partially what generates his power. In some cases the longer the swing, the more power there is. This also leaves you with “holes” in your swing. It is the reason for his lower average and strikeouts as well as high FB%.

    Scouts tried to get him to shorten his swing and put the ball on the ground to utilize his speed. A shorter swing produces more consistant contact and often times more groundballs and linedrives. However, after not being very successful in terms of average or power with the shorter swing and “hit the ball on the ground” approach, stubbs has started trying to hit the ball out of the park a little more and when you combine his new approach with his size, you get the 22 hr season he has last year. He didn’t even start all year and he hit 22. If you think he is going to hit 12 next year your out of your mind. Only time will tell i guess.

    I’m a Reds fan, and i’ve been to many Reds games and seen stubbs in person as well as on TV for the majority of the games.

  55. polczek5 says:

    @Terrence Mann: “[OF]’s SUPER deep. But like I said, there is a top tier with Hamilton, a second tier with Soo Choo, and then everybody else.”

    This brings up an excellent point that I think a lot of fantasy rankings and experts miss, or at least don’t clarify well. I usually find deep vs. shallow being discussed in terms of the top players: a position is deep when you can wait and still get a near-stud. I think this is probably better termed top-heavy vs. evenly-spread. I think of deep vs. shallow being related to how even the players in the low end tiers are, along your lines of thinking.

    To follow-up (and since I haven’t been mocking yet), what positions are you finding to be deep vs. shallow, meaning which positions have fall offs between the lower tiers that are going to make me cringe when i have to hit “select”.

  56. Terrence Mann says:

    @polczek5: Drafting as a whole is just a nightmare. Look at 2B. Cano fell off the second half of last season. Bad. I’ve seen him go in the first round. Then, where in the hell are you supposed to put Utley and Kinsler? I don’t really want to own either one of them. You have to spend a top pick and then pray they play 140 games. My plan last night was to wait a while and get Hill late. But I was sitting at the end of the 5th round not liking any players that were there and took Phillips.

    Grey will tell you 3B is shallow. He’s right. After Longoria, Wright, and Zimmerman (and maybe Youk) there’s a dropoff. You’re looking at risks taking later guys, whether it’s Mini Donkey, Sandoval, Stewart, McGehee, Salazar, whoever. So I waited until most of those types of guys were gone and took McGehee in the 10th.

    SS is also horrible. The top guys are all injury prone. Tulo always goes mid first round. Then Reyes. Then Rollins (who I cringed at taking end of the third round). SS is so bad that Jeter still went in the 4th round – and everyone at razzball hates him.

    1B there is a big dropoff quick. The power guys I mentioned. Then Morneau, Morales, and Konerko. If you don’t get one of those guys by round five, you’re looking at Billy Butler, Aubrey Huff, or Pena as your 1B.

    It happens every draft. About the seventh round, guys start bitching that there’s nobody available they even want to own. My suggestion, I guess, is look at the 7th-12th rounds of the draft and see which players you could live with on your team that are available there. Then, use your early picks on every other position.

  57. Terrence Mann says:

    I meant Alvarez, not Salazar.

  58. Tony says:

    @joe from pt pleasant: HAHA well #1 I’m from Ohio and my brother lives in cincy and I’ve been to a few reds games too. I also coach baseball so I know the ins and outs of swings and what produces ground balls and fly balls. He’s 6′ 4″ which i would not consider “extremely tall”. He weighs 205lbs. Is every site that lists him at that incorrect? I mean is he really 6’8″ and 250? Because every person I know thats 6’4″ and 205 is not an impressive specimen to look at. I’m sure he’s an athlete and has great speed, but I look at stats and the past to predict the future. Now anything could happen, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m not going to blow Stubbs up to some new level. I mean if last year someone told you Ryan Howard would hit 31 HR’s or Prince Fielder would hit 32 would you tell them they’re outta their mind? Think about that. Those were both 1st rounders!

    Knowing now you’re a reds homer your stance makes more sense. Just dont get crazy and take him in the 1st round! LOL…. or the first 10 i would think…. but hey if you REALLY think he’ll hit what you think and you want him that bad, take him, make your stand! Thats why we play the game…

  59. Terrence Mann says:

    @simply fred: I wanted Smoak but couldn’t find him in the damn queue.

  60. Stephen

    Stephen says:

    @Tony: That’s Grey’s area of expertise. I personally would stay 8 to 12th in 12 team leagues. But then again, I typically play in a 20 team league.

    @Blackbeard: Chirinos is a career minor leaguer, Fuld is what he is, Guyer is a tweener, Archer looks to have some upside, and Hak-Ju Lee is the prized prospect out of South Korea but still raw. The top prospects in this trade are Archer and Lee – sounds like a brand chips (like Archer Farms) or a Law Firm. Personally, I think Tampa was left with few choices and found good value, but I don’t think the Cubs lost this one.

  61. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Terrence Mann: This isn’t wonky to you:

    OF Bobby Abreu ANA R13 P10
    OF Tyler Colvin CHC R20 P3
    OF Garrett Jones PIT R21 P10
    OF Logan Morrison FLA R22 P3
    OF Franklin Gutierrez SEA R25 P10

    You have an aging guy who might hit 15 homers and two guys that might be better as platoon players.

    @Eddy: There’s not going to be a Garza write up unless I delay the rankings. Your hitting looks solid. Light on speed but you can find that on waivers. Your pitching could be fine, but there’s a bunch of risk/downside amongst them.

    @Steve: Ah…

    @simply fred: Your team looks solid if you were drafting for last year. Don’t like Bautista, Konerko, Cargo… Pitching looks fine.

  62. Grey

    Grey says:

    @RonRon: Your pitching’s way too strong and your hitting is pretty bad.

  63. Steve says:

    @Grey: Then as soon as I turn to my flask to get a cup of coffee, they open the doors and everyone rushes in ahead of me.

  64. joe from pt pleasant says:

    What was the HAHA for?

    Yeah i plan on drafting him… i don’t know why you think that my projection of 23 hrs coming off of a 22 hr season is so crazy..

    6’4 is very tall, at least in my world. He is thin, but he was even more so in his college and low minors days. All im saying is that he has the size to produce power and a hitting approach that is conducive to hitting the long ball. As a reds fan I’d rather see him be more of a well-rounded hitter but I wont complain if he is 20/30 again and plays great defense.

    Glad to hear you coach. I played 4 years of college ball myself before blowing out my arm. Tommy john tendon and partially torn labrum.. not fun. Was also a Pre-season all american back in high-school. I actually played against Jay Bruce in a tournament out in Arizona back in the day. He is the same age as I am. Hope Bruce and Stubbs go bonkers in 2011!

  65. RonRon says:

    @Grey: Thanks. Pitching can really mess with your head this year, I think. So many enticing options most rounds, it’s easy to default to just grabbing a solid pitcher instead of focusing on your hitting.

  66. Terrence Mann says:

    @Grey: I see your point. I like Abreu as a 20/20 guy to be my 4th OF. Scioscia loves him and Abreu always bats second or third. Meaning that he gets some time where SB/R are better and some time where the RBIs are better. I agreed last week with you that he was a reach in the 8th. But last night I got him end of 13. I’ll take him there every draft. My 5th OF I was just looking for upside with Colvin and Morrison. My original plan was to go SAGNOF there but why draft a SAGNOF when I can have Colvin and Morrison in April and see what they do? There’s value if they start hot. That’s what you preach, Grey. That’s what you preach.

  67. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Grey: Yeah, Bautista was an attempt to plug in a 3B (having trouble filling that void–don’t see any 3B strong enough to draft at the top). Thank you!

  68. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Steve: Always how it happens.

    @Terrence Mann: Sure, I like Colvin and Morrison… Separately. Together they might be more upside than one man can handle.

  69. big o says:


    with both hands , i reached into the draft pool , hoping to grab a kemp , or a choo , or a cruz .
    but some sharks had already beat me to them ,
    and all i pulled back was stubbs .

    sorry , in advance .

  70. i feel like hitting you guys with a player A / player B here.

    player A: 22/30/.255 in 514 AB (26/35 pace over 600). 32.7 K%, 9.4 BB%, 15.5 LD%, 40.5 FB%, 15.9 HR/FB.

    player B: 13/29/.245 in 392 AB (20/44 pace over 600). 32.7 K%, 10.1 BB%, 16.5 LD%, 36.8 FB%, 11.2 HR/FB.

    perhaps-unnecessary hint, player A is someone very, very close to you right now.

  71. Terrence Mann says:

    @Grey: So, now you’re criticizing my picks for having too much upside. I can’t win.

    I wish I knew how to quit you.

  72. Terrence Mann says:

    @wily mo: Only had to look at last night’s mock to figure out who you’re talking about.

    Hehe. Nice little sleeper.

  73. VinWins

    VinWins says:

    I have updated the Average Draft Position table. Added a column with the average for the last 3 drafts, in case you wish to discount the first 1 for a lack of preparation.


  74. did ANYBODY come out of that mock with a decent-looking offense? i think we might have split the pie pretty evenly, such that nobody really went home happy. i’m usually an offense-first asshole and i don’t even feel good about mine, probably because of the pitcher-ellsbury-pitcher misadventure i had in rounds 4-6, which usually never happens to me. i mean here’s what i wound up with:

    C – Geovany Soto 9
    1B – Joey Votto 1
    2B – Brian Roberts 13
    SS – Jose Reyes 3
    3B – Aramis Ramirez 7
    CI – Prince Fielder 2
    MI – Juan Uribe 24 (mic snaked me on bill hall. emoticon)

    OF – Jacoby Ellsbury 5 – OF1!!!!!!!1!!!!oh!eff!one
    OF – Jason Bay 10
    OF – Manny Ramirez 17
    OF – Rajai Davis 18
    OF – Luke Scott 20
    DH – Mark Reynolds 8

    BN – Berkman 19, JD Drew 23

    the infield’s all right, but the outfield’s closer to “all right as long as we all agree to play out the league in 2004”. i actually think it’s good for what i paid for it, but, i didn’t pay much for it. ellsbury & rajai is obviously too much rabbit for one outfield, so if it was a real team i’d probably start whoever was hotter & healthier out of ellsbury/rajai in one slot and berkman/drew in the other. or, probably more like the liveliest 3 out of bay/manny/berkman/drew in 3 of the other slots. sigh.

    people just vacuumed up all the top hitters in a really efficient way in rounds 3-5. there was no time to stack a team. i didn’t see if somebody was ruthlessly drafting hitters all the way 1-7, if they did they probably have the best offense. but it can’t have been a pleasant experience.

  75. tourinct says:

    10 team league where we draft teams, and start with 10 players from each. 5X5 H2H. I have the choice of keeping the Angels or the Reds (not considering the D’backs who I also have). Won last year so I’ll draft 10 & 11. Better keeper team? Thanks.

  76. I owned Stubbs on and off last season. I do think the power is legitimate. I also think he’s ridiculously streaky, so streaky that he was almost sent to the minors and benched for quite awhile.
    I find in general that guys with high K rates are more streaky. I have no evidence but it makes sense to me. And owning someone like Stubbs is just a little too maddening for me.
    What do you think?

  77. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Frank Kim: I agree that a K guy can be crazy streaky, but it’s worth the draft spot to see if you can ride it for a while.

  78. Terrence Mann says:

    @wily mo: I took the last #1 starter on my board (Oswalt) at 7.10. Offense is OK but my OF is wonky.

  79. @Grey: Good point. If he’s down there he’s worth grabbing. I’m probably just bitter because whenever I owned him he sucked and whenever I traded or dropped him he was great. :-)

  80. Steve says:

    @Grey: Will Rudy be doing Point Shares again this year? Loved them for my auction keeper.

    Or now that he’s married, is he too busy doing the dishes and taking out the garbage?

  81. SwaggerJackers says:

    Sorry I’m late to the draft recap party. I had a bunch of meetings at work that prevented me from looking at fantasy baseball sites. :(

    How did my team turn out?

    Player Team Acquired
    1B Justin Morneau MIN R4 P7
    1B Billy Butler KC R9 P6
    2B Robinson Cano NYY R1 P6
    2B Ben Zobrist TB R17 P6
    2B Neil Walker PIT R20 P7
    2B Omar Infante FLA R22 P7
    3B Ryan Zimmerman WAS R2 P7
    SS Alexei Ramirez CHW R10 P7
    SS Alcides Escobar KC R23 P6
    C Carlos Ruiz PHI R25 P6
    OF Nelson Cruz TEX R3 P6
    OF Alexis Rios CHW R6 P7
    OF Shane Victorino PHI R8 P7
    OF Brett Gardner NYY R13 P6
    OF Nick Swisher NYY R14 P7
    SP Adam Wainwright STL R5 P6
    SP Jered Weaver ANA R7 P6
    SP Dan Hudson ARI R11 P6
    SP Jeremy Hellickson TB R15 P6
    SP Clayton Richard SD R18 P7
    SP Ian Kennedy ARI R19 P6
    SP Anibal Sanchez FLA R21 P6
    SP Rick Porcello DET R24 P7
    RP Rafael Soriano FA R12 P7
    RP Chris Perez CLE R16 P7

  82. Eddy says:

    @wily mo:

    In the humblest way possible, I think I came out with a pretty good offense. In comment #52 you’ll see my team. My weak spots, as Grey pointed out, are a lack of speed (a Pierre-esque pick-up off the pool fixes that) and my pitching can fall sideways.

    About the only guy I don’t like was SeanRod, but he was the 25th round pick, so I’m not really sweating it.

    Care to give feedback on my squad?

  83. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Steve: He’s doing them.

    @SwaggerJackers: You have one guy who projects for more than 30 homers, so you’re light on power and your last two starters aren’t great.

  84. Steve says:

    @Grey: As Roscoe P Coltrane might have said, “Good news, good news.”

  85. Tony says:

    @joe from pt pleasant: well i dont see anywhere that I told you that 23 HR’s was crazy, im just saying looking at his minor leagues stats man and what he did last year? I’m just being optimistic. If he comes at the right price, as with any player, im in, but im not sold on this guy til i see something in spring ball, but then again maybe we dont want a hot spring?

    Where did you play HS ball? and college ball?

  86. joe from point pleasant says:


    HS ball in central NJ… college ball at ramapo college d3. the NJAC is the most competitive D3 conference in the nation. We were nationally ranked for a while. The torn tendon in my elbow acutally came while playing in tempe diablo stadium in arizona. Blew it out in front of a ton of MLB scouts in february before my senior year. Biggest mistake of my life. Missed my entire senior year, had to give up my scholarship to Rutgers and other D1 schools, and settle for a D3 school. Arm came back to health in college and I was the #1 for my team. My mechanics were very different though… i lost some control and found myself compensating. I wound up partially tearing both my labrum and biceps tendon toward the end of my sophomore year. Converted to a side arm reliever as a junior. Didnt work out so well. After that it was pretty much over. Theres the story of joe from point pleasant…

  87. JoeC says:

    Because now Hellickson is ensured a rotation spot. Before the Garza trade, I’m not sure that was true.

  88. GopherDay says:

    **Everyone, if you are available, join the Razzball Rankings Eve Mock draft on Sunday night! It’s on Mock Draft Central, Password is Sushi with a capital S.**

  89. Lines says:

    Any Razzers out there play fantasy hockey? I’m in a league (and doing quite well, thank you) but I could use some input on a potential trade. Sorry to bring up another sport; it’s terrible form on my part…

    And Grey, your mustaches are not only fuller than the hindquarters of a thoroughbred, but they are lustrous as well. Lo, they do shimmer like the sunlight on a dew-strewn meadow in Spring.

    I’m still not drafting Stubbs, though.

  90. Tony says:

    @joe from point pleasant: hey man sorry to hear that, sucks, we try and teach our kids with the best info up to date to not get them into arm probs, but sometimes there’s nothing you can do…. that’s awesome you had a chance at least! One of my best friends has a brother who has gotten a full ride to Marshall, and is a lefty throwing in the low 90’s, should get drafted, its fun to watch….

    so you’re from NJ? but in cincy now? how? where do you work? i’d crack my shit up if you worked where my bro does… LOL

  91. Tony says:

    fantasy hockey, HA

  92. Tony says:

    @Tony: he’s a jr or sr now can’t remember, damn youngans grow up so fast…. mike mason

  93. Bill says:


    8 team 5 X 5 (Traditional with OBP instead of AVG) Keeper League.

    Definitely keeping:
    Votto, Fielder, Tulo, AROD, Crawford, J. Upton

    Get to keep 3 more from the following:
    Bruce, Verlander, Latos, Hamels and Jimenez

    Which three should I keep?

  94. Mike from Jersey says:


    He just happens to be a big reds fan, but lives in jersey. i can vouch for 2 things, since ive known him a while. 1. the sad story joe told is actually true. he did have a dirty slider. 2. he tends to over hype anyone on his fantasy team or the reds, so take that into consideration.

  95. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Steve: Indeed.

    @JoeC: Yeah, gotcha.

    @Bill: Ubaldo, Bruce and no one if you don’t have to. Latos if you must keep another.

  96. Tony says:

    @Mike from Jersey: LOL hey ill root for any ohio team, as much as i hate the BUNGLES or The Reds, id’ root for them, somehow i actually have a soft spot for the reds, the indians are my team as ive said before, but seeing alot of reds games since my bro lives there and the fact they’re actually building a decent team makes me a fan…. hey go drew stubbs! LOL

  97. @Grey: @Frank Kim: actually just the other day i was pondering a radical strategy of drafting a team made up ENTIRELY of streaky high-K hitters, just try to get ALL of them until you would have a surplus and could swap in the hot ones for the cold ones.

    i think i’ll take some throwaway team this year and see how many of howard, dunn, carlos pena, mark reynolds, stanton, chris young, weeks, uggla, stubbs, rasmus, soriano, pedro alvarez, ian stewart, napoli, cust, branyan, bill hall, uribe, and chris davis i can get on the same roster.

    well, maybe not chris davis.

    they’re usually undervalued once you discard the BA concern, so you could almost get all of them. you’d have to go something like

    1 – howard
    2 – weeks
    3 – uggla
    4 – dunn
    5 – rasmus
    6 – stanton
    7 – c young
    8 – reynolds
    9 – p alvarez
    10 – c pena
    11 – soriano
    12 – napoli
    13 – stewart
    14-20 – some pitchers or whatever
    21 – uribe
    22 – hall
    23 – cust
    24 – branyan
    25 – davis

    could work! well, work in that you might be able to draft them all. not work like you’d win.

  98. @Eddy: yeah you wound up with a pretty solid group. good job of getting power without any BA liabilities at all (except iannetta but whatever) – well that’s assuming whatever happened to beckham and aaron hill last year doesn’t happen to them again, but i think that’s a reasonable assumption. i like most of your flyery guys. that’s probably close to the best any one person could pull out of this bloodbath.

    you did what i’ll normally do, all hitters though 7 or 8 (in this case 1-8 with one pitcher @ 5) and then all pitchers until late. i think that’s basically the winning pattern. all else being equal.

  99. Mike from Jersey says:

    Understandably, mock drafts are very early so many ADP’s will change like crazy. I went to check one particular player out because I thought he’d be a steal. It’s victor martinez but his adp is 29!!! However, as a DH he may still be worth it? In my keeper league he most likely wont be kept, and at pick #7 in the first round (5 man keeper so its basically a 6th round pick) im thinking it’s more than worth it. Atleast, thats better value than 29th overall lol. It’s very possible he puts up 2008 numbers (.303-23-108, 155 games played) and if you can stick that at catcher that’s more of an advantage than people think.

  100. Kid 'n Play says:

    Random poster and diligent reader here. Just want to say monday is like christmas. I can’t wait for it. I am already growing out my porn ‘stache in tribute.

  101. Tony says:

    @fred…im watching you…. lol

  102. T-BZA says:

    C Carlos Santana CLE R6 P5 Comment
    1B Justin Smoak SEA R15 P8
    1B Brandon Allen ARI R19 P8
    2B Ben Zobrist TB R8 P5
    2B Gordon Beckham CHW R17 P8 Comment
    SS Starlin Castro CHC R10 P5 Comment
    3B Ryan Zimmerman WAS R2 P5 Comment
    OF Ryan Braun MIL R1 P8 Comment
    OF Nelson Cruz TEX R3 P8 Comment
    OF Adam Jones BAL R11 P8 Comment
    OF Jason Bay NYM R12 P5 Comment
    OF Michael Stanton FLA R13 P8 Comment
    OF Brett Gardner NYY R18 P5 Comment
    SP CC Sabathia NYY R4 P5 Comment
    SP Clayton Kershaw LA R5 P8 Comment
    SP Mat Latos SD R7 P8
    SP Brett Anderson OAK R9 P8
    SP Dan Hudson ARI R22 P5
    RP Jonathan Broxton LA R14 P5
    RP Matt Thornton CHW R16
    RP Drew Storen WAS R20
    RP Jose Valverde DET R21

    way too young and full of c*& as Ghostface would say….gimme ur thoughts.

  103. T-BZA says:

    @T-BZA: full of $%^

  104. Grey

    Grey says:

    @wily mo: Yeah, might work. Would have to get lucky in BABIP department or you will end up punting average.

    @Kid ‘n Play: Ha… Thanks!

    @T-BZA: I think your pitching is way too strong and because of it your corner is a mess. I like Smoak and Allen, but they’re corner guys, not a 1st baseman. I’d tell you to trade Latos for a 1st baseman before the season started.

  105. Eddy says:

    Goodmorning all!

    Remember that there’s a special Razzball Rankings Eve mock draft tomorrow at 7pm EST!

    Password is Sushi (with the capital “S”)

    Join and see how close we draft according to Grey’s 2011 rankings!

  106. Billy says:

    Kemp for Price who wins?? is it even?


  107. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Billy: Kemp, not close.

  108. Billy says:

    @Grey: what rd do you have them being drafted this yr?

  109. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Tony: Watch me replace Cargo, Bautista, Konerko as the rankings unfold! Remember, what Grey do absolutely the best is ID over-rateds.

  110. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Eddy: I don’t understand the thought process of “That way when you play with or random people on Yahoo, ESPN, or CBS, you will literally land EVERY SINGLE RAZZBALL FAVORITE.” Other than to play with friends, or another format (H2H?), for me, there isn’t much thrill in dominating public leagues.

    I had taken 1st three of five years in 25-team general public points leagues. Frankly, it was boring. Only managed sixth in my first year in our RCL leagues last year. Found the challenge of playing against KNOWLEDGABLE opponents much more rewarding.

    Point: Everyone should plan to join an RCL league (run by ESPN).

  111. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @VinWins: Just want you to know that we are using your RAZZ mock ADP sheets. THANK YOU!

  112. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    Mariners reports are that Figgins to be positioned at 3B this year. After 10 games (ESPN) he will have 2B/3B eligibility. His ADP too high for me, but may be prompted a little by the multiple eligibility…?

  113. Mike from Jersey says:

    Grey you ignored my comment!! grr. comment 105. please respond with your thoughts.

  114. mic says:

    What up grey… this is my first decent mock of the season… I hated the jeter pick in the fourth. Reyes was picked right in front of me in the third, but i didn’t want to get stuck with a wack SS (i had alcides last season, still hurts)… and i picked my C in the last round, i’m not sure how i feel about that… Any criticisms/suggestions… Thanks yo…

    R1 P9 1B Adrian Gonzalez, BOS
    R2 P4 3B Alex Rodriguez, NYY
    R3 P9 OF Shin-Soo Choo, CLE [RF]
    R4 P4 SS Derek Jeter, NYY
    R5 P9 OF Jayson Werth, WAS [CF, RF]
    R6 P4 SP Justin Verlander, DET
    R7 P9 SP Matt Cain, SF
    R8 P4 OF Corey Hart, MIL [RF]
    R9 P9 2B Kelly Johnson, ARI
    R10 P4 SP Chad Billingsley, LA
    R11 P9 RP Brian Wilson, SF
    R12 P4 OF Torii Hunter, ANA [CF, RF]
    R13 P9 SP Colby Lewis, TEX
    R14 P4 OF Austin Jackson, DET [CF]
    R15 P9 RP Jose Valverde, DET
    R16 P4 2B Howie Kendrick, ANA
    R17 P9 OF Jason Kubel, MIN [DH, RF]
    R18 P4 SP Gavin Floyd, CHW
    R19 P9 RP Kevin Gregg, FA
    R20 P4 1B Ike Davis, NYM
    R21 P9 RP Chris Sale, CHW
    R22 P4 2B Dustin Ackley, SEA
    R23 P9 SP Felipe Paulino, COL
    R24 P4 3B Bill Hall, HOU [2B, LF]
    R25 P9 C Ryan Doumit, PIT

  115. Eddy says:

    @simply fred:

    I actually completely agree with you that public leagues are absolutely boring. Not only do people abandon their teams. but there’s no challenge.

    I was just explaining to Terrence Mann that a HUGE advantage over non-razzball readers was the pay off of continually mocking with us and joining an RCL (he had mentioned he was shying away from doing one, though I’m sure he was mostly kidding).

    With the exception of the RCL, I’m only doing leagues with friends from now on because public ones provide no entertainment.

    I’ve been feeling pretty good about my Razzball mock teams, and I’m hoping to place higher than 6th this year in an RCL (also my first time in 2010)!

    Btw, why don’t you join Sunday’s mock?

  116. Mike from Jersey says:


    I play in money leagues. The RCL is fun too, but even in those, by middle of the season you’re lucky if 2/3 of the league checks it. Money leagues, preferably leagues of at least a $50 buy in, is where you’ll find a lot of competitiveness.

  117. Eddy says:

    @Mike from Jersey:

    Yea definitely. I’m the commish of a 12 team H2H keeper league. We’re only in our second year, and the buy-in is only $20. Now that I’ve replaced 3 managers from 2010 with guys I trust, however, for 2012 I’m looking to raise the buy-in for something similar.

    It’s always different when money’s involved.

  118. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Mike from Jersey: @Eddy: Yeah, that fits with your other posts.

    BTW: We made our RCL league a $50 buy-in last year. Only one manager had problems keeping up (traveling in Europe).

  119. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Eddy: Have to pass on Sunday’s mock, wife inconsiderate enough to have a birthday party. :-)

    Will do everything I can to move up, but believe all managers have won their leagues before (the one exception a second place).

  120. mikey boy324 says:

    grey value wise what round would you consider drafting cargo?

  121. mic says:

    @mikey boy324: cargo is having a tough time getting past the first round…

  122. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @mic: Think you want to have all position players drafted before you work on the bench. That would mean a catcher no later than R22. Someone like Arencibia (who seems to be nearly assigned opening day nod) might have more upside…?

    I am interested to see Grey’s take on your draft. In the past, I believe, he has stated that he preferred to fill the bench with pitchers. (I see other managers fillling bench with hitters as well, you not alone). For example, yes, Ackley and Hall have upside, but assuming Johnson and Kendrick are healthy, where would you play them? They just sit on the bench yielding no production. You could have middle relievers filling in for SP who aren’t starting for the day, getting you Ks and the occasional vulture W/SV. Am wondering if Grey has changed his stance…??

  123. Terrence Mann says:

    @mic: I wanted Soo Choo at 3.10 and Werth at 5.10 and you sniped both of them!

    I’m not gonna sign up for tomorrow’s mock. May have family stuff going on. If I can sneak in as a last minute replacement, I will for sure.

  124. Is it just me or are the Cubs morons?!

  125. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Mike from Jersey: There’s a question there?

    @mic: I’m on a runway right now. Will look at you team when I get to a computer. Plane runway, not model.

  126. Mike from Jersey says:


    Yes i wanted your thoughts on that. Is Victor a value because playing DH keeps him healthy, and is he a value because he represents strength at a shallow position that most people punt till round 15ish

  127. GopherDay says:

    ******There are 5 spots left for the Razzball Rankings Eve mock draft tomorrow at 7pm EST!*****

    Password is Sushi (with the capital “S”)

    Join now, so we don’t have any AI’s or need to post on Yahoo!

  128. Grey

    Grey says:

    @mic: After round 14, you have one potential guy that would stay on your team besides closers. Your team’s light on power, speed and pitching. It’s not great.

    @Mike from Jersey: V-Mart’s not a value at 29. Not until around round 5 is he a value.

    @mikey boy324: End of the 2nd.

  129. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Grey: You still in favor of filling bench slots with pitchers?

  130. big o says:

    i understand the point that people are making , when they equate a money
    league to a higher level of competition , but there are some caveats :

    a) $50 – 100 may be a lot of money to you , but to someone else it might be chump change , and , thus , is no guarantee of a high level of competition ,
    b) not all commissioners are honorable . to wit : i don’t think i’ll ever receive my 2nd place money from last year …. i lose my 100$ entry fee and am left with hard feelings …
    (the level of competition was ok , for the most part .)
    d) caveat emptor

  131. Tony says:

    @big o: our league was super competitive big o last year, i ran the RCL that had the $50 fee, i paid out all places, we had guys from all different places around the US, it was pretty sweet… I do agree that $50-100 bucks might not be much to some as it is to others, but putting even $10 into a hat and paying that out makes it more intesting and ANY team that has a chance to win it is going to stay focused and manage their team.

    That wasn’t a razzball league you lost $100 was it? Thats messed up.

  132. big o says:


    no , it wasn’t a razzball league .

    don’t get me wrong , i prefer to play in a money league ,
    but , as someone who plays it right down to the final out , of the last
    day of the season (including maximizing my IP’s) , it really shouldn’t
    matter if your team has any chance of winning .
    it’s an “honor” thing .
    and , as i’m pretty sure fred will attest , finishing 5th is a hell of a lot better
    than finishing 7th .
    and although i play mostly roto’s , in h2h leagues the ramifications of
    “sending it in” , (or abandoning your team) affects the entire league , to the
    point where one has to wonder whether some sort of collusion is at play .

  133. Neck Beard says:

    Have been doing a few mock’s lately and looking on some comments, my league usually fields 12 teams with smaller rosters, so my later rounds aren’t really clear yet and I’m looking to just grab closers — and there has been talk of going to using OPS instead of AVG this year (btw how do you feel about that in leagues?)…mainly just looking to see where/if I wasted any picks, and should I go earlier for a more established Ace…missed out on some guys I wanted like Josh Johnson, Mat Latos..Thanks Doc

    1.3 – Hanley Ramirez
    2.10 – Shin-Soo Choo
    3.3 – Dustin Pedroia
    4.10 Jason Heyward
    5.3 Jose Bautista
    6.10 Tommy Hanson
    7.3 Trevor Cahill
    8.10 Corey Hart
    9.3 Max Scherzer
    10.10 Michael Stanton
    11.3 Ben Zobrist
    12.10 Michael Napoli
    13.3 Michael Cuddyer
    14.10 Josh Beckett
    15.3 Pablo Sandoval
    16.10 Andres Torres
    17.3 Travis Snider
    18.10 Anibal Sanchez
    19.3 Leo Nunez
    20.10 Johnny Cueto
    21.3 Seth Smith
    22.10 Danny Espinosa
    23.3 Drew Storen
    24.10 Aaron Harang
    25.3 Matt LaPorta

  134. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @big o: Have to agree that once the league is 2/3 through the season and managers feel that they have very little chance to get some of it, the money is no longer an incentive. We were fortunate. All managers active to the end with not a smell of collusion. I imagine that once one plays long enough, he can’t avoid some negative experiences. Truly sorry for yours. Hope to be able to weather it with the aplomb you have.

    And, yes, I was fighting for that next rung to the end, trading out all players the last day for playoff team guys, just in case it went that extra day!

  135. Mike from Jersey says:

    Grey i went out to buy moose munch and all i could find was trail mix. good enough?

  136. Eddy says:

    ***2 spots left in the mock***

    It is today (tomorrow for you West Coasters) at 7pm EST! Password is Sushi!

    For those already in, I reeled in some fresh meat from Yahoo. I’m pretty sure it’s the three fellas that have “fantasy” in their names.

    They’ll go in thinking they’re prepared.

    They’ll leave wondering WTF just happened.

  137. mic says:

    @Grey: yikes i thought my team was decent… i’ll try to load up on power in the beginning and fill in the gaps next time… the end of our mocks have been serious business…

    @mockers: once we get more activity from other razzers lets try to set up a 15 team mock…

  138. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Neck Beard: I’m not crazy about your pitching. Scherzer and Hanson are good, but the rest are pretty bleh. Not crazy about your corner choices either.

    @Mike from Jersey: What, are you a health food nut?

  139. scrotum says:

    14-team Keeper (keep 4) 5×5 w/ 5 OF slots.

    M. Cabrera
    J. Votto
    D. Wright
    J. Hamilton
    A. Wainwright
    J. Werth

    Is the conventional wisdom to throw Wainwright and Werth to the FA pool so I get a better 1st round pick? I just don’t know how much of an upgrade Longo is from Wright or Braun is from Hamilton.

    Any ideas what players I should target in a trade?

  140. Tony says:

    @simply fred: our league was really good, there were probably 7 teams vying for 3rd and 4th place at the end, only maybe 2 were really out of it…..

    @big o: i hear ya getting screwed outta money sucks, right now i have 3 guys that owe me from different leagues! from the past 2 years! $310 total…. pretty annoying… Whats funny is 2/3 of the way thru the year there’s still really good chances with the right moves you can make a run, people just dont see it that way…

  141. Grey

    Grey says:

    @scrotum: Yeah, the move is to lose Wainwright and Hamilton.

  142. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    Hey, saw the post by Diamondoug suggesting an RCL league made up of last year’s winners (may need two). Love the idea! I, sadly, don’t qualify but would be even extra incentive to strive for the top of the top next the following year!

  143. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Grey: Am looking at what’s available in lieu of where Bautista is going. Morneau? Morales? Other?

  144. Terrence Mann says:

    @Grey: You’re keeping Werth over Hamilton? Wow.

  145. Terrence Mann says:

    @simply fred: I don’t like any of the options at that point, either. I took Posey at 4.3 and know that’s a reach. The next two picks were Bautista and Greinke. Blech.

  146. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Terrence Mann: Nice to know someone else feels my pain!

  147. johnson says:

    just took the last spot in the mock. thanks for setting it up.

  148. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Terrence Mann: Oops, good catch.

    @scrotum: I meant the move is to lose Wainwright and Werth like you said.

  149. Grey

    Grey says:

    @simply fred: Don’t know who was available when you took him. I’d prefer Morneau of those names.

  150. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Grey:Thanks! Lots of time to finalize, but that gets Bautista off my board. Morneau penciled in as tentative.

  151. Jacob says:

    Does anyone know where I can find some mocks to do without paying moolah?

  152. Grey

    Grey says:

    @simply fred: No problem.

    @Jacob: I don’t think the people that are participating in the Razzball mocks are paying.

  153. GopherDay says:

    @Jacob: The mock draft central ones are free, but you can’t create custom ones. Eddy is the only one who pays to create them. We are having mocks every Wednesday/Thursday. So check the comments for posts about them.

  154. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    @Jacob: You can “sign up” for free at mock draft central and jump into any 3 of their mocks per week for free (including, but not limited to, razz mocks run there).

  155. Jacob says:

    Thanks everyone. I’m looking forward to rankings starting tomorrow!

  156. Grey

    Grey says:

    @Jacob: You and me both! I mean, yeah!

  157. GopherDay says:

    Okay Grey, what do you think about my mock draft?

    C Matt Wieters BAL R12 P1
    1B Ryan Howard PHI R1 P12
    2B Ian Kinsler TEX R3 P12
    SS Danny Espinosa WAS R18 P1
    3B Mark Reynolds BAL R8 P1
    CI Prince Fielder MIL R2 P1
    MI Eric Young Jr COL R24 P1
    OF Jayson Werth WAS R4 P1
    OF Curtis Granderson NYY R6 P1
    OF Carlos Quentin CHW R10 P1
    OF Desmond Jennings TB R16 P1
    OF Dexter Fowler COL R19 P12
    Util Logan Morrison FLA R22 P1

    SP Justin Verlander DET R5 P12
    SP Matt Cain SF R7 P12
    SP Javier Vazquez FLA R9 P12
    SP Philip Hughes NYY R11 P12
    SP Jeremy Hellickson TB R14 P1
    SP Jorge De La Rosa COL R15 P12
    RP Rafael Soriano FA R13 P12
    RP Matt Thornton CHW R17 P12
    RP Chris Perez CLE R20 P1
    RP Brad Lidge PHI R21 P12
    RP Evan Meek PIT R23 P12
    RP Jonny Venters

  158. Reddish Orange says:

    Hey since it’s January I need to start thinking about keepers. I’m in a 12 team league that has the following roster spots:

    The rules are we keep 3 guys 2 rounds higher than their draft spot. I’m considering keeping Hanley, Adrian Gonzalez, and Cano @ round 1 (if I keep multiple, I give up the subsequent rounds), Carlos Gonzalez in the 7th, or Jered Weaver in the 9th. I also have Gio Gonzalez in the 19th round.

    What are your thoughts? I’m leaning towards 1 first round guy, CarGo, and Weaver.

  159. Reddish Orange says:

    Forgot I have Prince Fielder in round 1 too

  160. GopherDay says:

    @Reddish Orange: You could do Hanley and A-Gone for round 1 and 2, and CarGo for round 7.

  161. JoeC says:

    Tomorrow is the 2nd best day of the year (Opening Day being the best)!

  162. Grey

    Grey says:

    @GopherDay: I like the hitting, but Jennings might not break camp with the Rays. The pitching looks fine too.

    @Reddish Orange: I’d go Prince, Hanley and CarGo.

  163. pjtres says:

    im going to sht my pants waiting for tomorrow morning! i cant wait- better than my birthday!

  164. ThE sHiT says:

    @Grey: Where are you celebrating the big day tonight? Maybe I’ll show up and we can toast to fantasy dominance, and mustaches…

  165. Eddy says:


    Thanks again for the breakdowns.

    One small detail. If I’m not mistaken, Dunn will only be 1B eligible for 2011. He’s listed under OF in the position breakdown sheet.

  166. GopherDay says:

    @Grey: In a 5X5 14 team dynasty league, would you go with I got offered Chacin for EY2. Do you think I should accept the deal?

    I have phillips for 2B and an IF slot, but I have better options for that too. I don’t really need Chacin, but do you like him more than EY2?

  167. Hennessey says:

    That link you posted (http://bosoxgifs.imgur.com/beltre_head_rubs/2) of Beltre’s head rubbing phobia is hilarious. I have a new found respect for Victor Martinez after watching those. Pedroia too.

  168. VinWins

    VinWins says:

    @Eddy: Thanks! I appreciate the heads up. I see I had Dunn in the OF everywhere.

    Please feel free to point out any mistakes.

Comments are closed.