I blame the media: every manager has an itchy trigger finger early in the season when it comes to the bullpen. Or I blame myself and everyone else who obsesses over fantasy as we’ve created a culture where 5.2 IPs are something that need to be dissected and reacted to as if a reliever is only going to throw 10 innings, not 60-80 innings, in a season.

That said, that’s the culture we’re in. Fantasy baseball owners need to be nimble and react and jump on potential closers. With that in mind, let’s get bold and look down the line at which RPs will emerge as saviors.

As always, check the bottom of the column for the BS meter, which will track blown saves for relevant relievers all season long. As you’ll note in the nifty third-grade-level chart, only 16 subjectively “relevant” relievers have blown 2 or more saves. Of those, nine were closers to start the year. Oddly, Scott Downs has two blown saves and the pitcher he replaced, Jordan Walden, has only blown one.

Oakland Athletics: In two of his last four outings, Grant Balfour has blown saves. It has actually been worse than that, as Balfour has pitched 2.1 IPs, allowed six hits, six runs and walked three batters during that span. His ERA rose from 1.50 to 4.72. That said, he’s getting hurt by more HRs than should be expected and he’s walking a few more batters. While there’s a small decline in his fastball velocity, his swinging strike percentage remains constant. The Athletics need Balfour to close to trade him, so he is in no immediate danger of losing the chance at saves. His manager said as much after Tuesday’s debacle. However, he will likely get traded or demoted after the trade deadline if the A’s can’t move him, which would give Ryan Cook save chances. A lot can happen between now and then, but he’s worth a stash. Cook, just 24, came over in the Trevor Cahill trade. He has always walked a ton of people, but, at least, he’s posted great K-rates along the way, and, so far, a hot-air balloon-sized walk rate hasn’t hampered him. At the end of the year, Cook will have 65 K’s, a 3.90 ERA and a 1.37 WHIP. Update: Fuentes got the save opportunity against Boston in a cushy three-run game last night. He gave up a hit on a weak grounder, an RBI double to Dustin Pedroia but otherwise perfect. Cook pitched the 8th and, until the trade deadline, might be behind Fuentes for save chances. I’d still prefer Cook as the handcuff/speculative add as Fuentes is nothing but a slightly better LOOGY.

Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim: As noted, Scott Downs is now the closer for the Angels. However, everything coming from the Angels seems to suggest this is a temporary move. Downs is doing his best to keep the job and is a short term stash, however the chances he stays the closer all year are probably under 50%. Recently Mike Scioscia said it wouldn’t take long for Walden to rediscover his “mojo” (the media didn’t ask how that 2011 form, which included 10 blown saves, differed from his 2012 form). Walden is also the “future” at closer, so he’ll get some shots unless Downs is just amazing (which he isn’t). In addition, word is the Angels have kicked the tires on a variety of RPs: Joel Hanrahan, Brandon League, Balfour and Huston Street. If the Angels continue to scuffle and the bullpen gets painted as the culprit, expect the Angels to make a cosmetic move to make up for it. If you can trade Walden or Downs, that makes sense. If not, hold them and hope Albert Pujols decides to be El Hombre.

Los Angeles Dodgers: Sometimes actions speak louder than words and sometimes they don’t. Don Mattingly gave Kenley Jansen all the save chances over the weekend, while a seemingly rested Javy Guerra was available. Jansen, because he’s one of the best relievers in baseball, acquitted himself quite well. Then, of course, in a tight game in the ninth against the Rockies, Mattingly went to Guerra who pitched a decent frame. Guerra has allowed 10 hits over his last 3 innings and has a 5.56 ERA. Still, Guerra will get most of the easy saves and a few of the toughies. Given Jansen’s ability and decent shot at double digit saves, he’s worth owning everywhere. In addition, I’d try to work a trade for Jansen based on Guerra’s latest save.

Chicago White Sox: Robin Ventura has put himself in a corner with this Hector Santiago business. While he maintains Santiago is the closer, Matt Thornton recently got save opportunities against lefty-heavy/tough line-ups. Santiago was then given an inning of work on Tuesday, put three batters on base and narrowly escaped without allowing a run. He hasn’t pitched in a high leverage spot since April 25. At the moment, the rosiest glasses picture Santiago on the good side of a platoon with Thornton. Of course, Thornton gave up a couple of runs, including a HR to lefty Travis Hafner last night. Meanwhile, Addison Reed is straight killing it. Go all in on Reed, as he’ll emerge quickly as the guy who gets 80% of the save chances during the season. For those of you in dynasty leagues or intense save formats, check out Dylan Axelrod. From my Wikipedia research, that is not a made-up name. Axelrod has been a starter in recent history and has shown he can control the strike-zone.Ventura first chose his fourth best reliever to close, so stranger things have already happened.

New York Mets: I continue to maintain that the only thing that will stop Frank Francisco from closing all year is his health. Of course, he now has a bizarre hamstring issue that the Mets are claiming is a result of dehydration because of their trip to Colorado. That sounds fishy, but, according to Terry Collins, Francisco was available on Tuesday. Frank Franc hasn’t pitched since April 29 when he got the awesome blown save-win, and, before that, he converted two saves in a row. Since the 29th, the Mets haven’t won a game, but Jon Rauch and Bobby Parnell have pitched well. Given how bad the Mets are, speculation on this bullpen is near fruitless. I wouldn’t mind betting on Parnell in a league where most middle relievers are owned.

Minnesota Twins: Has there been more ink wasted on anything as useless as the Twins closer situation? Matt Capps has been horrible but hasn’t pitched in a high leverage spot since April 23 and hasn’t had a save opportunity since April 20. Startlingly, Capps hasn’t actually blown a save this season and is a perfect 4/4. Meanwhile, popular handcuff Glen Perkins is off to a tough start as well. If you’re in a dynasty league that can stash minor leaguers, check out Deolis Guerra. I know, “another Guerra,” but who doesn’t love war? Besides pacifists, I mean. Guerra earned a quick promotion from AA to AAA and could be in the majors later this year. If there’s a true future closer in the Twins organization, my money is on Guerra.

Miami Marlins: Holy crap, Heath Bell pitched a clean inning in a save opportunity. It should be noted that Edward Mujica got the hold in the game, while the younger Steve Cishek sat on the bench. Bell has a long leash, so if you’re going to burn a roster spot on a pitcher, take the better guy: Cishek.

Pittsburgh Pirates: With the Pirates going nowhere fast, Joel Hanrahan could very well be traded. While Juan Cruz seems like the add, I’d actually bet on Jason Grilli. Grilli has recorded a hold in each of Hanrahan’s saves. In addition, he has been fantastic: posting a 15.0 K:BB rate. He’s not that good (no one is), but he could finish with a 3.30 ERA, 1.17 WHIP and 70 K’s. If you’re stashing grab Grilli.

San Diego Padres: Huston Street should be traded this year. If he gets moved, Andrew Cashner and Ernesto Frieri are the likeliest to step in a close. I prefer Frieri, who has paired great K-rates with dangerous walk rates. However, you can succeed with high walk rates in Petco (just ask Heath Bell). At the end of the year, I expect a 3.05 ERA, 1.25 WHIP and 85 K’s for Frieri. As for Cashner, if you thought Frieri walked a ton of batters, just wait. So far, Cashner has been walking the tight rope with a 6.39 BB/9 rate. At the end of the year, he’ll have a 3.60 ERA, 1.38 WHIP and 68 K’s. In addition, Cashner was acquired to start, not relieve. Consequently, there shouldn’t be much pressure on the Padres to put Cashner in that role, while Frieri could be the “closer of the future.”

Seattle Mariners: Tom Wilhelmsen is about nine months younger than Brandon League. You would think either would be available at the trade deadline. Naturally, if League is dealt, Wilhelmsen is the man. He is off to a good start, increasing his strike-outs and improving his command. He’ll be good for 75 K’s, a 3.50 ERA and 1.25 WHIP. Given his skill set and K potential, he’s worth owning right now.

Colorado Rockies: Rafael Betancourt blew a save in rather spectacular fashion yesterday: he allowed two runs on two hits and two walks. He did strike-out the side, so there’s that. His ERA sits at 2.45 after the disastrous outing, so there’s not much to be seen here.  Both Matt Belilse and Rex Brothers had their problems as well.

Tampa Bay Rays: Kyle Farnsworth is on the 60 day DL and Fernando Rodney is dealing. What is the world coming to?

Name BS Name BS
Heath Bell

3

Francisco Rodriguez

1

Alfredo Aceves

2

Frank Francisco

1

Brad Lidge (DL)

2

Glen Perkins

1

Brandon League

2

Greg Holland (DL)

1

Carlos Marmol

2

Henry Rodriguez

1

David Hernandez

2

J.J. Putz

1

Francisco Cordero

2

Jason Motte

1

Grant Balfour

2

Joaquin Benoit

1

Hector Santiago

2

Joe Nathan

1

Javier Lopez

2

Joel Peralta

1

Javy Guerra

2

Jon Rauch

1

Kevin Jepsen

2

Jonathan Broxton

1

Matt Belisle

2

Jordan Walden

1

Rex Brothers

2

Jose Valverde

1

Scott Downs

2

Kenley Jansen

1

Sergio Santos (DL)

2

Marc Rzepczynski

1

Andrew Cashner

1

Mariano Rivera

1

Brian Fuentes

1

Matt Lindstrom

1

Chris Perez

1

Pedro Strop

1

Clay Hensley

1

Ramon Ramirez

1

Darren Oliver

1

Sean Marshall

1

Edward Mujica

1

Tyler Clippard

1

Wilton Lopez

1

Vinnie Pestano

1

187 Comments
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KMO
KMO
10 years ago

Alrighty then. Thanks Albert. Addison Reed, welcome to the carousel of questionable closers.

Same ole, same ole, attorney at law/fantasy baseball in beantown.

I’ll have to check in here more often, my squad is rather questionable all around. Yes, I’m talking about you Alexei Ramirez and Clay Bucholz.

KMO
KMO
10 years ago

Heyo, Should I drop Downs for Addison Reed–even with all thise Sale talk. I’ve already owned and dropped Santiago and Cordero. Capps and Downs remain on the squad–things aren’t going well.

May bad if I posted this in the wrong spot.

Albert Lang
Reply to  KMO
10 years ago

@KMO, Hey KMO! How’s life bud?

I’d play a longterm game here and drop Downs for Reed.

Scott
Scott
10 years ago

I like to be able to see the BS meter but I think it’d be much more informative if it also showed save opportunities. Seems like that would be pretty easy to add.

At any rate, great column.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Scott
10 years ago

@Scott, That’s a good addition, great suggestion. It’s basically BS + S, i can do that easily for next time.

Ryan
Ryan
10 years ago

Already have 6 starters..cc,Lester,Kershaw,JJ,Lynn,Worley…
And on waivers r guys like Matt Moore,detweiller,beard,demster etc
Just think AROD is done
Have guys like trumbo,jd Martinez, to replace Cuddyer.
Would u do it?
Thanks

Albert Lang
Reply to  Ryan
10 years ago

@Ryan, I probably wouldnt. i dont think AROD is done.

Hanley: .272 22 HRs, 80 runs, 90 RBIs, 25 SBs.
AROD: .270 with 23 HRs, 72 runs, 85 RBIs.

If you need 20+ steals, go for it, if not, i’d just stick it out.

Ryan
Ryan
10 years ago

Would u trade AROD, Cuddyer,and billingsley for Hanley?
Trying to get Hanley at the bottom
Thanks
Standard league

Albert Lang
Reply to  Ryan
10 years ago

@Ryan, It seems a little steep. Who would you be picking up for the two empty roster spots?

wynams
wynams
10 years ago

Holy shit!

I don’t come here anymore, but when I saw Albert and one of my follows on twitter discussing this thread … geebus.

Can’t police commenters, but could we get writers who did not feel compelled to be this effing defensive?

As far as insults, is “you sound like a yahoo commenter” not setting that exchange up on the wrong foot?

As far as whining on twitter that the razzball community assumes you just read the box scores, did you not say in this thread that you “cannot stay up to watch lame west coast games”?

FFS, this place has gone to hell!

Albert Lang
Reply to  wynams
10 years ago

@wynams, But MLB.TV gives me access to all of the games a day later and I can watch the ninth inning in the morning while I’m at work….It means I cant write about it in time to get it into the column but can watch it before the column goes live. So, I’ve seen every ninth inning debacle by the time the column runs. Thanks for fact checking though.

As for my comment, it was a direct response to his insult first. I’ll come at anyone who wants to start a conversation that way. It’s far easier to just be cordial but if someone doesnt want to be, I’m not going to either. I didnt set up the exchange on the wrong foot….he did.

Also, I wasnt whining on twitter about the Razzball community. i was complaiing about one person. As you’ll note in the many comments I’ve made here, I’m greatly appreciative of the Razzball community. I enjoy the back and forth and the give and take. It doesnt need to devolve into insults though.

If one or two people want to post comments insulting me and making false claims about my work I’m going to defend myself. I take anyone calling into question my work ethic pretty seriously. This isnt a game to me.

So, wynams, what are my options here? Ignore the comment? I’m compelled to respond and a response will have to be defensive or it’d jsut be a lame. thanks for your comment, we disagree.

thanks for returning, wynams, you’ve offered a ton of valid info…

anchovies
anchovies
10 years ago

rivera’s career over? jesus christ. this is awful. what a way to go down. even at 42 he was a force. how could you not peel some hurt for the guy. i know im a delusional yankee fan, but damn…rivera was always a solid dude. always. this is no papplebum or a-rod character…real deal baller playing center during batting practice. i mean even if you hate the yankees, is that the guy you wanna see go down forever?

pure devastation.

Albert Lang
Reply to  anchovies
10 years ago

@anchovies, I never rooted for Rivera. I never wanted him to succeed (although I would have liked him to keep that Red Sox choke going). I can still appreciate and respect how phenomenal he was.

I feel pain as a baseball fan. It’s just not the way it was supposed to happen, which is life, but man, life is fickle.

anchovies
anchovies
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, you ain’t kidding.

Ringo
Ringo
10 years ago

Hey man can you rank these relievers for me? I am using H2H settings so I am thinking more long term with these guys.

RP – Rafael Betancourt (COL)
RP – Fernando Rodney (TB)
RP – Frank Francisco (NYM)
RP – Sean Marshall (CIN)
RP – Kenley Janseon (LAD)
RP – Jordan Walden (LAA)
RP – Sergio Santos (TOR)

THANK YOU.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Ringo
10 years ago

@Ringo, Marshall, Betancourt stand above.

Rodney, Francisco, Santos (if you have a DL), Jansen, Walden (Santos if no DL).

Ringo
Ringo
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, I got 1 DL Spot and Longo is on it for a while now.

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Ringo
10 years ago

@Ringo, tough to hang with Santos but heard he’s trying to be back quikc….might bump him above Walden

PublicEnemy#1
PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

Would you trade Bautista and CJohnson for LaHair and CSantana?
My starting roster would look like this offensively:

Ramos
LaHair
Kipnis
ARod
Aviles
Aybar
CSantana
CarGo
McCutchen
AJones
Trout
Boesch
Butler

*LaHair replaces Bautista, CSantana replaces YAlonso

Albert Lang
Reply to  PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

@PublicEnemy#1, It’s close but I think too much value is tied up in Santana. I’m constantly worried about catchers and injuries. I’d stick it out with Bautista, His LD, FB, GB rates are all normal, his HR/Fb rate has tanked as has his BABIP

PublicEnemy#1
PublicEnemy#1
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, Thanks for tour time and thorough response. I still believe in Bautista, it was more of a way to replace the lack of production I’m getting from Alonso as my 1B.

Albert Lang
Reply to  PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

@PublicEnemy#1, Yeah, it’s hard with Alonso there. But I also think it’s a waste of Santana’s value to plug him into 1b….

Maybe try to go after a top tier 1b instead? Fielder?

PublicEnemy#1
PublicEnemy#1
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, That was my first move, which I’m glad you’re confirming was the right thing to do. I went after Votto, Pujols, Fielder and even Konerko, but got no bites. The guy with LaHair/Santana also has Konerko. He has Youkilis as well and I just picked up Middlebrooks, so maybe I can get him to throw in Youk if I added something on the back end as well.

Albert Lang
Reply to  PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

@PublicEnemy#1, Yeah, you made the right first step. I’m just such a wuss when it comes to trading my studs for parts. Santana is really good, but by no means a lock to stay healthy and come close to whta i believe Bautista will do.

that said, subtracting Alonso and adding two solid performers makes it close. it certainly isnt a panicky sell low situation.

PublicEnemy#1
PublicEnemy#1
Reply to  PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

@PublicEnemy#1, Would it change anything knowing that LaHair can be kept for $1 in both 2013 and 2014? We keep 4 each year and players have to be released back to the pool after three years at a price. My current keeper possibilities are:

Trout $1
Bauer $1
Boesch $2
Aviles $8
Kipnis $9

We use a $250 cap. 16 team league.

Albert Lang
Reply to  PublicEnemy#1
10 years ago

@PublicEnemy#1, I think LaHair is more of a one and done kind of guy than anything that will last. Similar to Tyler Colvin.

I think Kipnis, Trout, Bauer and you can find someone. Just dont think there’s long term success in LaHair.

PublicEnemy#1
PublicEnemy#1
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, Thank you! Good day, sir!

BooBird
BooBird
10 years ago

Fuentes or Cishek?

Albert Lang
Reply to  BooBird
10 years ago

@BooBird, I’ll take Cishek. He’s simply better. If you are in dire need of saves, go Fuentes, but the few saves he gets will come with a hefty ratio cost

anchovies
anchovies
10 years ago

as a yankee fan, this is devastating. goddamn. i also have him on my team. and been hanging on to Huston Street, though i can only use one closer a night.

should i hang on to Street? or grab Robertson or HenRod, Soriano, League is out there, JimJohnson… or some other wire fodder? Street doesnt get many opportunities.

thanks

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  anchovies
10 years ago

@anchovies, I’d stick with Street, the save opps will come and he’s the best of the bunch

Albert Lang
Reply to  anchovies
10 years ago

@anchovies, Also, I dont know if I feel your pain, but I’m saddened by this. I’m an Orioles fan and have been on the wrong end of Rivera’s greatness for a long time. But damn if it wasnt amazing to watch him do what he did. I hope he comes back now, but that’s a tall ask of us fans.

Black Beard
Black Beard
10 years ago

It feels ridiculous asking this, but Pujols is scaring the shit out of me: Pence and LaHair for Pujols?

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Black Beard
10 years ago

@Black Beard, I have him in my most expensive league. I wouldn’t do that trade, would want more.

kangaroo hops
kangaroo hops
10 years ago

In a dynasty league, do you think David Aardsma has any value? Trade bait? Return to closing duties?

bean
bean
Reply to  kangaroo hops
10 years ago

@kangaroo hops, Hasn’t pitched since 2010 and there is nothing certain about his ability to close when he does return. Add to that the lack of an offer by the Mariners as he departed and the lack of knowledge the Yankees seem to have about pitching mechanics……….I say future looks cloudy.

No, no and no……unless you are in a league with Brian Cashman.

Albert Lang
Reply to  kangaroo hops
10 years ago

@kangaroo hops, Stranger things have happened, but as @bean notes Aardsma has thrown just 4 IPs in AAA since 2010. The Yankees have far better options and even Joba might be healthy sooner than Aardsma

Black Beard
Black Beard
10 years ago

Rivera torn ACL.

Not a Yankees fan, this sucks.

bean
bean
Reply to  Black Beard
10 years ago

@Black Beard, Yankees have to be shopping now. No way they go a month without a solid bullpen since their SP are a mess. Wonder if they are looking at Huston Street now to beat the Sox to him.

Myers, Street, Hanrahan all looking at Manhatten real estate.

Albert Lang
Reply to  bean
10 years ago

@bean, I think Hanrahan would look the best there. It’ll be interesting to see how this goes as I cant envision Cashman trading any real prospects for a bull pen arm and there are sellers (Oakland, SD, Pitt, Houston, etc.).

Diamond Jim Gentile
Diamond Jim Gentile
10 years ago

Rivera has a torn ACL. Girardi will ‘sleep on’ who takes over as closer.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Diamond Jim Gentile
10 years ago

@Diamond Jim Gentile, Thanks for the update!

Matt
Matt
10 years ago

Screw closers, do i need to offer joyce or prado along with bonerfacio for asdrubal or chris davis and boni for assdrubal not TOO offensive

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Matt
10 years ago

@Matt, start with davis, bonifacio. I’m a big Joyce fan.

Ferris
Ferris
10 years ago

you’re a good egg to put up with that cishek v. mujica argument

yikes

grey told me yesterday rauch would get more saves than mujica this year — he’s down one (1)

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Ferris
10 years ago

@Ferris, that could be a close one. Rauch’s suspect health won’t help. And I like Parnell more. I say Mujica gets 7 saves, Rauch 4

PunxsutawneyPhils
PunxsutawneyPhils
10 years ago

Soriano pitching in the 8th with Yanks 3 Royals 4.

Albert Lang
Reply to  PunxsutawneyPhils
10 years ago

@PunxsutawneyPhils, Thanks for the update, Phils! For some reason i dont get mention of these comments until hours after they are made. Sorry for my lag in responding.

Benny
Benny
10 years ago

Brennan Boesch was dropped in my league. He kind of got off to a slow start but he should be owned right? I would have to drop Laroche or Dunn. What would you do? Also, Do you see Gallardo shaking the early season stink off and ending up low-end fantasy Ace material?

Albert Lang
Reply to  Benny
10 years ago

@Benny, Look at Gallardo’s first month last year. I have no concerns with him.

Boesch, LaRoche, Dunn are pretty much the same guy…..LaRoche is dinged up a bit so it wouldnt hurt to trop him for Boesch

Phil from Belmar
Phil from Belmar
10 years ago

Angels just traded for Ernesto Frieri.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Phil from Belmar
10 years ago

@Phil from Belmar, Thats kind of surprising. Andrew Cashner gets a good boost from that. Cant see him supplanting anyone in the Angels pen though. Also his HR/FB rate wont benefit from Petco any longer

Jam405
Jam405
10 years ago

After last night’s catastrophic failure by Burnett, I need to pick up a new pitcher. Who would you grab? Thanks
Colon
Samardja
Arrieta
Volquez
Capuano

Albert Lang
Reply to  Jam405
10 years ago

@Jam405, Take Volquez. All are worth owning though….

EK
EK
10 years ago

Pls rank:

Niese
Duffy
Holland
Milone

Albert Lang
Reply to  EK
10 years ago

@EK, Holland Niese, Milone, Duffy

Shin-Soo Choo Choo
Shin-Soo Choo Choo
10 years ago

Drop Downs or Casilla for Robertson?

Shin-Soo Choo Choo
Shin-Soo Choo Choo
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, What would the loss of saves be based on?

J. Corzo
J. Corzo
10 years ago

10 team H2H mixed league. Looking at possibly adding Henry Rdoriguez. Should I drop any of these closers to get him?

Bell (MIA)
Guerra (LAD)
League (SEA)
Valverde (DET)

J. Corzo
J. Corzo
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang,

Position players I could drop:

Wigginton (PHI)
Peralta (DET)
Altuve (HOU)
Campana (CHC)

Starters I could drop:

Dettwiler (WAS)

Albert Lang
Reply to  J. Corzo
10 years ago

@J. Corzo, Oh, drop Capmana, he’s not much better than a Jordan Schaffer

J. Corzo
J. Corzo
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert,

I just picked up Campana since I was losing steals this week and wanted to make up the gap since Michael Bourn, Matt Kemp, and Kinsler haven’t stolen a single base for me this week. The podcast guys seem high on him, but he’s merely a 1D player to me anyway(steals). And I am a Cubs fan. He’s also not necessarily guaranteed ABs w/ Reed Johnson as a platoon vs leftys (today) and a potential Brett Jackson call-up.

I was thinking Wigginton since he’s backing up Prince Fielder.

Albert Lang
Reply to  J. Corzo
10 years ago

@J. Corzo, ROTW Wiggington will be more valuable in a vacuum. HOwever, if you dont get to play him, might as well drop him…..

J. Corzo
J. Corzo
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert,

Rodriguez got another save tonight, so he’s definitely getting added tonight. My only worry about dropping Wiggington is the positional depth he provides. But I have a crap-ton of OFs and Krispie Young is a FA in this league. My current DL spot is taken up by Luebke.

Albert Lang
Reply to  J. Corzo
10 years ago

@J. Corzo, drop wiggy, pick up Young, dl young, drop Luebke for Henry Rodriguez. you dont need depth really, what does it add? one start every couple of weeks?

J. Corzo
J. Corzo
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert,

I appreciate the recommendations.

PunxsutawneyPhils
PunxsutawneyPhils
10 years ago

Who would you rather have right now? Fuentes or Thornton?

Black Beard
Black Beard
10 years ago

If Rivera is out, Robertson the pickup?

PunxsutawneyPhils
PunxsutawneyPhils
Reply to  Black Beard
10 years ago

@Black Beard, I would think most likely Robertson gets the chance. I picked up Soriano since Robertson’s taken in my league. I dunno if he’s their definite setup man but Soriano has the most experience from Tampa.

3FingersBrown
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, I’m going to say Soriano due to the much heralded closer experience. Also Robertson’s the better pitcher, so Girardi might like having him available for high leverage situations.

Albert Lang
Reply to  3FingersBrown
10 years ago

@3FingersBrown, He’s the heir apparent though. Normally I’d agree with you on this…still, we shall see what happens

3FingersBrown
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, With the Yanks scuffling, Girardi’s gotta realize that having the flexibility to use Robertson whenever he’s needed gives him the best chance to win.

Also assuming Mariano comes back, they might not want to toy with Robertson changing roles again.

Just food for thought.

In one 12 team H2H league where Soriano is available and Robertson’s already gone, I can only field 3 RP’s per day – I have Street, Motte and Downs. You wouldn’t drop Downs to speculate on Soriano would you?

The other option is to shed a starter. Humber would be the first to go but he’s got 2 starts next week.

Albert Lang
Reply to  3FingersBrown
10 years ago

@3FingersBrown, Hey, its all speculation at this juncture and your points are valid.

I would keep Downs around.

What are the free agent-type SPs out there? WE’ll likely get clarity on the situation soon, so you could drop Soriano for another SP if it goes to Robertson or Mo is ok

3FingersBrown
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, Humber, Nicasio, The Shark… My starting pitching is pretty loaded but it’s 6×6 counting QS so there’s a premium on SP.

I’ve been using my last SP slot to stream, before I picked up Humber the week of his PG. My inclination is to hold, since my bullpen has been competitive as is.

I just hate to see anyone else get saves.

3FingersBrown
Reply to  3FingersBrown
10 years ago

@3FingersBrown, …that’s the back end of my staff. The rest is Masterson, Cahill, Kennedy, Latos and Haren.

Albert Lang
Reply to  3FingersBrown
10 years ago

@3FingersBrown, You’ve got enough pitching to make the move.

Are there comparable goes on the free agent wire?

3FingersBrown
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, McDonald, Capuano and Arrieta are available.

I think I’ll pick him up. Worst comes to worst, I’ll grab one of those guys. Best case is I’ve got 4 closers and one becomes trade bait…

Albert Lang
Reply to  3FingersBrown
10 years ago

@3FingersBrown, I agree with that. Not much difference between those guys and Humber. I love my boy Arrieta, although would probably go with Capuano

3FingersBrown
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, To quote Usual Suspects, “…and just like that… he was gone.”

Someone just beat me to the punch. Oh well, there’s always the Miami roller-coaster…

RambleOn
RambleOn
10 years ago

Cross your fingers if you own Mariano. He just got hurt during BP before the game by running into wall.

PunxsutawneyPhils
PunxsutawneyPhils
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

They were literally lifting him up and carting him off the field. Could of course be totally precautionary, but no good nonetheless.

Smokey
Reply to  RambleOn
10 years ago

@RambleOn, He put zero weight on his right leg and was seen visably wincing, looks like a lower leg injury.

Elijah
Reply to  RambleOn
10 years ago

@RambleOn,

Mariano Rivera was carted off the field Thursday after suffering an apparent injury to his right knee during batting practice.

Josh Yager
Josh Yager
10 years ago

With an open roster spot, who is the better own: Grilli or Wilhelmsen?

Josh Yager
Josh Yager
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, Guess I was wrong. Thanks. Do you think Grilli has the better opportunity to snag the CL role.

Josh Yager
Josh Yager
Reply to  Josh Yager
10 years ago

@Josh Yager, and which one is better both now, and second half. My instinct is Wilhelmsen? Just wanted some advice.

Josh Yager
Josh Yager
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, Yeah and 18 K’s through 9IP can’t be ignored. You convinced me just made the add with Luebke to the DL. Thanks.

Josh Yager
Josh Yager
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, I had Mo, so I just had to drop Hammel to add Soriano (Robertson was already owned since the beginning of the season, damn 18 team league). Also added Frieri with the trade to Angels (also own Downs). Hopefully I have the saves locked down in Anaheim to take away some of my MO Sadness. MO Money MO problems I guess. Off chance he is mildly injured and comes back, I take back my sad cocktail induced rambling.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Josh Yager
10 years ago

@Josh Yager, I use to be Frieri’s biggest fan, but that was because Petco masked one of his biggest deficiencies: fly balls. I think the pecking order remains Downs, Walden, Frieri. If Downs scuffles, they’ll go back to Walden.

It’s a bad day for baseball, this is how one of the all time greats is supposed to go out.

Prezii
Prezii
10 years ago

Better outing?

Buehrle @ SD
or
Cahill @ NYM

bean
bean
10 years ago

Romo out for the 8th and 9th behind by 1 so it seems Bochy still trusts Casilla for saves. Lopez coming out for the last of the 9th…….Ozzie is making sexy eyes at him and I think I saw a wink.

EK
EK
10 years ago

Pls rank for a spot start:

Buehrle @ SD
McDonald v CIN
Dickey v ARI
Milone @ TB
J. Williams v TOR

jwalkerus
jwalkerus
10 years ago

Simple question. 20 team dynasty keeper league.
Who has a better carear.

Hosmer or Brett lawrie

I have hosmer. Offered lawrie for him.

Todd
Todd
10 years ago

10 Team 5×5 H2H

My closers were Bell/Motte/Balfour/Marshall. I dropped Bell this morning because of DL injuries to Longoria/Hudson/Luebke, and his general suckiness.

Do I drop Balfour for Jensen too? Myers is available as well, just not sure how many save situations he gerts.

Thanks!

Albert Lang
Reply to  Todd
10 years ago

@Todd, Well, if Myers is available, it’s got to be a pretty shallow league, right?

I think the Athletics and Astros are equally bad, and Myers is pitching well, so I’d take Myers for the time being, but be ready to drop him should he get traded. I like Jansen and he’s real good, but in this type of league, you need to get saves from your relievers

Elijah
10 years ago

Word out is Cubs make make a closer switch soon.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Elijah
10 years ago

@Elijah, Sveum said his only options were Dolis (who is really the same as Marmol) and James Russell. Russell isnt great, maybe a 4.45 ERA, 1.42 WHIP and 60 K’s. That bullpen is horrendous. Maybe a dark horse will emerge, but they are all just awful.

Baron Von Vulturewins
Baron Von Vulturewins
10 years ago

PEDRO ALVAREZ.

Another day, another donk.

This is really happening, isn’t it.

Albert Lang
Reply to  Baron Von Vulturewins
10 years ago

@Baron Von Vulturewins, It’s happening, but I dont think it will continue.

He has a 35% HR/FB rate. He’s swinging and missing a ton, striking out a ton. He’s a .240 hitter with 26-30 HRs.

Baron Von Vulturewins
Baron Von Vulturewins
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, I hear you. But his walk rate is up slightly, right? Maybe he’s learning?

When I close my eyes and make a wish, I can see him at .275.

Maybe .265.

Howie Met Your Mother
Howie Met Your Mother
10 years ago

I traded Cueto + Haper for Beachy in a 12 team, H2H league that also includes K/9 as a 6th pitching category. Good or bad trade for me?

Ryan
Ryan
10 years ago

Stuck with AROD….do u think Seager or Alvarez can give similar numbers ROS?
Standard league

Pierre
Pierre
10 years ago

Would you drop Bell for Reed, or just ride the tubby wave out? Words can not express how much I hate that man right now. Sat him 5/1, started him last night. Fuuuuuuu

Pierre
Pierre
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, 11t Roto 5×5 QS over W/OBP over AVG. Not the deepest of leagues, to be sure, but our league is closer crazy. Unfortunately all I have is Marshall and H-Rod. Looks like I’m stuck..

TheTinDoor
JTin
10 years ago

I’m short on Saves, and am targeting Heath Bell as a buy-low. Certainly there is risk after his horrendous start, but his $27M contract should buy him some more chances at the gig.

I’ve got extra power, and was offered Bell for Morneau. A guy like Vernon Wells is on the wire, who projects to roughly the same amount of HR as Morneau. Make the move?

Jake Stone
Jake Stone
10 years ago

Rafeal Betancourt didn’t have a disastrous outing in the blown save. The two walks were intentional to Kemp and Ethier and Tulo made a bad throw to home that would have bailed him out. U should try watching games instead of studying box scores.

kangaroo hops
kangaroo hops
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, You don’t take criticism well. For pete’s sake, if you are going to write a column and thereby open yourself up to criticism, part of the job is to address your mistakes that others “generously” point out. You often (see “jack” above) throw an insult at the very people who are trying to instruct and enlighten you/me/others. Are you a 7th grader? It is very annoying.

A walk is not a walk, insofar as the closer keeping his job is concerned. An intentional walk is the manager’s call and responsibility. If you think they are all the same, and talk BS to support that, you probably don’t have much business writing baseball advice online.

Accept criticism gracefully–it’s part of the job. Even if others aren’t so diplomatic or polite, it is your job to be so. Otherwise you are just a whining brat.

Albert Lang
Reply to  kangaroo hops
10 years ago

@kangaroo hops, I’ll own that I dont take unfounded criticism that comes with a side of insults very well. It is by no means by job to sit here and respond kindly to folks who take two seconds to type a comment that is insulting and misguided. If you’re going to insult me, I’ll insult you.

I dont write these for money or fame. I enjoy writing them and talking fantasy baseball. if all i were doing is looking at box scores that’d make me the laziest person in the world.

I have never and would never insult anyone who came at me with a constructive point that was well thought out and didnt insult me. For reference, see my response to Dingbat who originally pointed out that I didnt save the walks were intentional.

I will add that I never said that Betancourts job was in danger. Further, typically an intentional walk is issued because the manager fears the outcome if the pitcher actually faces the batter. If a pitcher puts his manager in a place to order an intentional walk, that’s not good. Are you suggesting that an intentional walk has nothing to do with the pitcher and the situation he has created?

90% of these comments are good give and take. there are folsk with different opinions to mine and we talk about them in a rational and adult way without insulting folks. Should I probably refrain from insulting people back? Maybe, but I also dont feel the need to just sit here after I’ve spent considerable hours writing, researching, editing, fighting a deadline and watching baseball. RAzzball commentators are the best in the world, certainly far better than other message boards. That’s why I love and feel privileged to write for Razball. However, if someone comes at me with a comment that is clearly aimed at insulting me, I’m going to respond in kind. I’m human….

TheBravesWear Prado
TheBravesWear Prado
10 years ago

@Chunk, He has no confidence in his fastball. It’s just slider after slider. His jerky delivery reminds me of Ubaldo. They have zero control over where the ball is going.

TheBravesWear Prado
TheBravesWear Prado
10 years ago

First Balfour, then Putz and now Marmol. I can’t keep taking this abuse.

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  TheBravesWear Prado
10 years ago

@TheBravesWear Prado, if it makes you feel better, everyone is experiencing it..cool handle by the by

John
John
Reply to  albert
10 years ago

@albert, so Cishek is on waivers but I’m using a claim on Paul Goldschmidt… what’s a better speculative add Mujica or Dolis and I’d have to drop Mike Adams (I’m holding onto him for ratios… leagues does not count holds), or should I just forget the whole thing?

Chunk
Chunk
10 years ago

Is Marmol really this bad?

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Chunk
10 years ago

@Chunk, at the gym, did he do something offensive this afternoon?

John
John
Reply to  albert
10 years ago

@albert, He just got pulled in the ninth after BB, BB, error, single, walk… no outs. Ugly

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  John
10 years ago

@John, yikes. Dolis is the same crazy train but younger, Wood is off the DL but will be back soon. Marmol is relatively safe in terms of job security, but its scary to start him.

Chunk
Chunk
Reply to  albert
10 years ago

@albert, But hey, he’s in line for the win!

Always look on the brighter side of life….do do….do do, do do, do do

TheBravesWear Prado
TheBravesWear Prado
Reply to  Chunk
10 years ago

@Chunk, He got taken out so Dolis would get the win if they take the lead.

Ryan
Ryan
10 years ago

Thx
Would u trade lohse and billingsley for shields??
Have excess pitching..trying 2 for 1

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Ryan
10 years ago

@Ryan, absolutely I make that deal.

Ryan
Ryan
10 years ago

Rank josh Johnson,billingsley,lohse,Worley ROS
Need to keep only 2
Standard league
Thanks

Albert Lang
albert
Reply to  Ryan
10 years ago

@Ryan, Billingsley and Johnson are keepers, easily

RK
RK
10 years ago

Not only did a stream in Jake Westbrook on both teams, but he also gets a steal!

RK
RK
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, no…and now I wish Pedro Alvarez weren’t playing…

dingbat
dingbat
10 years ago

Just wanted to note that both of Betancourt’s walks last night were intentional. Can’t really find fault with the decision to walk Kemp and pitch to Gordon, but it didn’t work out too well in the end. Walking Ethier to pitch to Hairston (K) worked out better.

dingbat
dingbat
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, The bittersweet Conshellation Prize!

Ralph
Ralph
10 years ago

Who do you think is next in line for saves in Toronto, if Cordero continues to suck? I’m thinking Perez, Janssen, Oliver, in that order.

Bob
Bob
10 years ago

Trade offer I got

His Dempster for my Morneau and Headley.

Fair or not? I could use the pitching.

AbNormal
AbNormal
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, what’s this I read earlier today of Ryan Webb possibly being available for the save if the opportunity arises today? Besides in the deepest of leagues, he any kind of option going forward?

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, why in the world are you advising a Mujica pickup? He is CLEARLY the 8th innning set up guy. Last two times Bell has come up, Ozzie had Cishek waiting to clean up for him, which he did last night. Think you are misreading this situation and giving out bad advice (sounding like CBS “analysts” to be honest)

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, Traditionally, You have a set-up guy who owns the 8th inning and you have a closer. Ozzie abides by that tradition. Mujica is the set-up 8th inning guy. Guillen’s moves have made that crystal clear. Fact that he got a hold has no bearing, in fact you would really make the opposite conclusion from the fact that he got an 8th innning hold than you did — he is the 8th inning hold guy, not the 9th inning save guy. Cishek was preserved for closing duties (proven again by Guillen’s moves). Nice on the yahoo comment, but you will lose any flame war, in fact you, as the moderater lighting your little Bic, have already lost. Admitting your observation was kind of ignorant is the first step towards professionalism.

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, @Albert Lang, All those guys are explicitly temporary fill ins, all of them and 2) Strop was NOT the setup guy prior to closing those games, Gregg was and 3) did you know Cishek not Mujica filled in for Nunez? Melancon is a great parallel to what is really going on, peering through the fog, actually. Last year Lopez was 8th inning guy, but Melancon got the job. Being the 8th inning set up guy doesn’t mean you are the closer in waiting. I can list countless examples of 8th inning guys not ascending, but this is not my job, you can marinate on Melancon and Stop and Cishek for now. You cannot argue the fact that Ozzie has made it quite clear by his moves that he wants Mujica to continue in his set up duties. Sometimes you have to quit when you are behind Mr Lang. If you aren’t going to be professional, you have to actually show some verve and wit and unorthodox perspicacity . That’s the Razzball way IMO.

Albert Lang
Reply to  jack
10 years ago

@jack, Strop worked the 8th on 4/19, got the save 5 days later. He blew a save on 4/22 in the eighth, in a hold chance. He worked the 8th on 4/13. He was the 8th inning guy at that point.

I never said being the 8th inning guy meant you always got the save opportunities. You said that ” You have a set-up guy who owns the 8th inning and you have a closer.” implying that 8th inning guys never become closers.

Furthermore, who is to say that the hypothetical replacement of Bell isnt viewed as temporary. If the Marlins view it as a temporary replacement, judging by your logic, that means the 8th inning guy is more likely to be the temporary fill-in. We’re not talking about Bell being removed indefinitely, just removed for awhile…meaning it’d be a Downs-Walden-type of situation.

You certainly picked your straw man carefully, ignoring Jansen and Pestano

So, are you telling me that if Guerra, Perez and Jim Johnson are removed from closing, Jansen, Pestano and Strop are not the guys?

What about if Fernando Rodney gets removed, you dont think it will be Joel Peralta?

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, Talk about creating straw men! That’s exactly what you are trying to do to my argument. If you keep what I wrote in context, you will see I did not say an eigth inning guy never closes, that would be absurd, I said IF a closer is about to be replaced, the guy who goes out in the 8th is likely the guy who will continue to go out in the 8th. His role has solidified. Guillen made it quite clear by his moves that he wants Mujica in the 8th, Cishek in the ninth (or tenth). If when Guerra faltered, Jansen went out in the 8th and some other guy with closing experience was held back and warming up … you would be dumb to insist Jansen is the imminent closer. And on to straw men, you can’t possibly accuse me of that when I was providing counter examples to your universalizing statement. You’ve lost this one Mr Lang, warping my argument, refusing to let go, spurring tangents … but you don’t want to admit your comment that Mujica got the hold so must be in play for the closer role was ignorant.

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, Insults … it started with me saying you sound like the CBS “analysts”, and you still IMO do. When there’s a closer on the hot seat they always reflexively recommend grabbing the 8th inning set up guy. It’s “established roto wisdom” but it is frequently wrong (40% of the time I would hazard) and frustrates me because it seems lazy and lacks genuine insight into the real dynamics at hand. An example from earlier this year: Nationals, they were endorsing Clippard when it was obvious Davey wanted him to remain the 8th inning guy. And they and many others couldn’t and still don’t understand why Robin wants Thornton in the 8th, not the 9th. Many managers want dedicated 8th inning guys and would only use them in the 9th if they absolutely have to. We saw that tonight with Cishek and Bell both unavailable … guillen used Mujica out of his normal role. This is my frustration with you — you don’t seem to want to accept that many managers stick with a set up 8th inning guy and for many reasons won’t let him close unless his closer arms aren’t avail. Managers don’t always do the rational sabre-correct thing … they go by feel, and certainly guillen is a believer in the “closers mentality”. Some guys are setup and some are closers. Mouse and Men.

Now, do you think 8th inning duties involve the highest leverage? Take a look at the leverage index at Fangraphs. 16 of the top 20 high leverage guys are 9th inning closers (one is a 7th inning guy, the rest are set up). Cishek is slightly ahead of Mujica so far this year btw.

So with the last two Marlins games, Guillen knew Bell was shaky and might need to be relieved. He let Mujica run out in the low leverage clean 8th and kept Cishek warm for the high leverage save the game situation if Bell faltered … and he did, and Guillens tactics paid off handsomely with Cishek cleaning up.

I really don’t know how you can see what transpired basically backwards from how I see it … quite clear in my eyes.

Generally it’s my opinion that you are doing a disservice to the community by always recommending the 8th inning guy as closer in waiting without taking the time to look into the situation at hand (managers philosophy and tendency, how he views his players, how those players profile psychologically and with their stuff) and trying to determine which guy is seen by the mgr as the mouse and which one the man.

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, So sensitive Mr Lang. Ever hear of the hypothetical universal use of “you”? Should have been clear I was using that sense when I began the sentence with “generally it’s my opinion that you”, but your snark about “novel” writing leads me to believe you don’t really read much literature. You would learn a lot about the art of subtlety if you did … take that as a hint. 40% is frequent by any measure, silly to insist otherwise. Your spurned ego kind of takes over and you get all Hulk like and stop making sense … if you are wondering why I am being snarky, re-read what you wrote, it bristles with a little too much guy in the basement “I will destroy you under the cloak of anonymity” nastiness.

Let me ask you one final question, why in the world do you think Ozzie sees Mujica as a closer? As I mentioned, cishek has closing experience, Mujica does not. You seemed to be deducing that Mujica is next in line solely from Mujica’s 8th inning appearances. Sure seems to me that you are applying that “set up man is closer in waiting roto wisdom” as a universal precept in this case, because what else is behind the deduction?? Is there any other evidence (before todays game) that supports that deduction? Mujica Ks 7 per 9, cishek over 9 per 9. Cishek never gives up HRS, Mujica has and always has had gopheritis.

Like I said, I’d like to see some more thought behind the recommendations … I come here for the anti-CBS stuff, not the CBS stuff

wilsomiam
wilsomiam
Reply to  jack
10 years ago

@jack, why do you care so much about the internet?

Albert Lang
Reply to  jack
10 years ago

@jack, I am sensitive, I’m a human being. I spend considerable amount of time writing, editing, reading and watching baseball. I enjoy writing these to interact with folks. However, if you’re going to start off by insulting me without much facts to back it up, I’ll get defensive. It’s just my (and most of humanity’s) nature.

I also apologize for not realizing that in a post directed to me I didn’t understand that when you (not the universal you, I mean @jack) said you, you meant every person who writes about closers. But, if the “universal you” always writes that the 8th inning guy will take over the closer role, how do you account for me arguing for Parnell or Addison Reed, or Wade Davis or Henry Rodriguez? If something is universal it happens all the time….again, I’ll posit that I do not simply anoint the 8th inning guy as the future closer, which you seem (without evidence) to suggest.

On the contrary, I’m pretty well read. I like to read. I even went to college, have a steady job, etc. etc.

Re: 40%. Maybe I’m mistaken but we’re talking about whether an 8th inning guy becomes the closer when the closer is demoted/injured. It’s an A or B situation, either the 8th inning guy does or doesn’t. If established roto wisdom (which is that the 8th inning guys get first crack at saves) is wrong 40% of the time, that means it is right 60% of the time. When it’s a one or the other, 40% isn’t a great measure of success.

What anonymity am I hiding behind? I’ve responded to every post, you know my name, have a link to my blog, can easily find out who I am. I live in an apartment building, we dont have a basement.

Cishek has three saves in his career. Mujica has three saves for his career (2 before last night). How does one have experience and the other doesn’t? I’ve always said that Mujica wont get double digit saves and that Cishek is the better pitcher. In my opinion, the fact that Ozzie kept Mujica in his role in a tight game and saved Cishek means that he trusts Mujica more. I don’t think Ozzie is assuming Bell will fail and then, in the event the he somehow removes Bell before the Marlins lose he can go to his best reliever. Basically if Cishek is his best reliever, he’s waiting to use him until the game is pretty much lost. We simply disagree on Ozzie’s philosophy.

I wonder if you questioned Grey yesterday when he said it would be Cishek or Mujica? Would it have been better if I just said “I have no clue, few people do.” Is that what you want? I have a slight leaning toward Mujica, I’ve thought about it for days and that’s where I went. I certainly could be wrong, but I’m giving opinion with some evidence behind it. I’m not infallible.

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, Here’s to an insult free day! You’re very knowledgable obviously and you write in a clear and concise way. This is Razzball, expect to be razzed. We got off on the wrong foot because I razzed you and you did a no I’m not you’re something far worse … I don’t think you are a basement loser, but some of the angry escalation was unnecessary and IMO needed to be pointed out (as painfully as possible). Ignoring the needless verbal arm wrestling we both engaged in, there were some decent points made. I would have stopped responding if the debate wasn’t forcing me to re-think and re-search.

Really my main point was made in my last response. What about Mujica BEYOND his 8th inning role leads you to believe he has as good if not better chance than Cishek? He’s a gopher slut (huge HR rate) and his K rate is not ideal for the closing role. His 2 lifetime saves came a few years ago I believe, for a different team. Cishek saved games for the Marlins last year.

On to Guillen’s philosophy: you think Guillen is going to use his most trusted arm rather than keep him warm should Bell falter. I disagree. Reading Guillen’s recent quotes he fully expects Bell “to fail again”. Ozzie IMO knows he needs a closer for his closer, that’s the way he is playing it. But, this is opinion, and we are ipso facto at a deadlock. I do think you need to recognize that you maybe didn’t dig deep enough into comparable peripherals … K and HR rate make it very very clear that Cishek has the “closer stuff” while Mujica doesn’t.

Albert Lang
Reply to  jack
10 years ago

@jack, Wait, you’re accusing me of acting like a child now! that’s it!!!!! I demand satisfaction in the form of NHL 94 on sega genesis, you have to be the Kings. (this was all a joke).

Most of my reasoning for Mujica getting the first shot is in Guillen’s usage and the different interpretations we have. I think it’s odd that Guillen would be saving his best reliever for an instance that might not exist. Rather I think he prefers Mujica and got him into a tight game knowing his pitching would matter.

I’m also not sold that Mujica is a gopher slut (which is an awesome turn of phrase). And, even if he is, Marlins stadium should mask that pretty well. Mujica has had fairly reasonable FB rates and league average-ish HR/FB rates for the Marlins. In reality, his only true bad gopher year was when he had a ridiculously untenable 17% HR/FB rate. I also project similar K/9 rates for both relievers (although Cishek’s will be better).

True Mujica’s saves came for the Padres, but he was also acquired in the Maybin trade as a back of the bullpen type. Meanwhile Cishek was a fifth round pick in 2007 and hasn’t closed much in the minors, 19 saves in 175 games. So, organizationally, it appears in my mind that Mujica was acquired more as a closer and Cishek as an arm.

Also, I never said that Mujica had closer stuff, just that he would get the first opportunity. I actually projected worse numbers and less K’s for Mujica than Cishek. In addition, I wrote that Mujica would not get 10+ saves. All I really said was that Mujica would get first crack, but that Cishek was better.

If only it were possible to read minds. Maybe I’m giving Guillen too much or too little credit. I just think it’s weird that he would wait for Bell to get in trouble (knowing it could cost them the game), while his hypothetical best reliever (Cishek) is waiting in the pen. of course, I’m applying my own rational thought to Ozzie Guillen. In fairness, I’m a huge Ozzie fan and believe he knows what he’s doing, while simultaneously looking like a nut.

jack
jack
Reply to  Albert
10 years ago

@Albert, I posted an insult free wrap up including my concluding thoughts from last nights action in the SAGNOF forum. Welcome to continue over there …

Baron Von Vulturewins
Baron Von Vulturewins
10 years ago

Apropos of nothing:

The current 2nd ranked pitcher and 6th ranked *player* in Yahoo!

Lance Lynn.

It’s a funny world.

Baron Von Vulturewins
Baron Von Vulturewins
Reply to  Albert Lang
10 years ago

@Albert Lang, The funniest part is I have him, and I doubt I could trade him for Dunn straight up right now. Aboslutely no believers out there, or at least no one willing to take a chance that midnight isn’t about to strike for this Cinderella.

Which is fine, since I keep racking up the W/QS…

RK
RK
Reply to  Baron Von Vulturewins
10 years ago

@Baron Von Vulturewins, about time the Cards got a real pitching coach!

DasPeck
DasPeck
10 years ago

Grey,

My panda is was put on the endangered species list!

What do you think of potential replacements?
Middlebrooks
Lowrie

wow… I guess those are my most viable options. FML.