Let’s put it out there upfront, the Dodgers shouldn’t re-sign Hanley Ramirez. Only Earvin Johnson III’s stylist knows exactly what Magic is thinking when it comes to throwing money at a problem. (By the by, am I the only one that thinks Magic’s son may have been a hospital mix-up and is really Charles Barkley’s kid? Could he be The Round Mound Sausage Hound? Earvin Johnson III goes by E.J., and Barkley works on TNT with Ernie Johnson, who goes by E.J. Hmm…) Maybe the Dodgers do re-sign Hanley and then Alex Guerrero becomes a platoon player-slash-fills in for Hanley when he invariably hits the DL and/or doesn’t feel like playing for a month. His last year in Triple-A proved Guerrero can at least compete in the majors. His stats were 15 homers, 4 steals and a .329 average in 65 games. Of course, that was in the PCL, so translating those stats to Earth stats and you have about 7 homers, 2 steals and a .270 average. Not mind-blowing, but remember that’s in only 65 games, so it’s not as awful as it sounds either. A film starring Alex Guerrero called, “Alex Guerrero, He’s Not Awful.” Aw, c’mon, baseball players are like us, they have feelings too, and that’s not nice. He floated a far way on a raft while eating nothing but Cuban sandwiches, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. Hint to Fidel: maybe you allow the citizens of your country everything, except rafts. I don’t know, I’m merely a genius on paper. Anyway, what can we expect of Alex Guerrero for 2015 fantasy baseball?
When Guerrero signed with the Dodgers, Scott Boras said he had the power of Dan Uggla. Carson Kressley couldn’t even say that with a straight face. He has between 12-17 homer power. I’d say 12 since he’ll be a rookie, but a series or two in Coors gives a guy at least 5 homers….Then Petco subtracts 3 homers. Okay, I’ll be modest and say he gets 15 homers, but he does have upside from that. He has the inability to take a pitch. I’m guessing that’s a born-on trait of most Latin hitters that do the bulk of their training outside of the states. As Ozzie Guillen might’ve said, “You hit your way off an island; you don’t walk your way off an island unless you’re Jesus.” Due to the lack of plate discipline, I’m worried he’ll struggle to hit .240. Average is hard to predict for a rookie, due to small sample sizes — That’s what she said! Huh? — and due to the sheer nature of average that has luck so heavily tied to it. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt again and say he gets to .250. Hmm, maybe Boras meant a 2014-version of Uggla and wasn’t lying. Like a bus carrying Gwen Stefani and her band, that’s doubtful. The speed is very Yunel-like. (In fact, this whole guy’s profile is Yunel-like, yet we trudge on!) He’s not going to steal 15 bags; he may not steal 10. He’ll probably sit between 6-10. Again, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say 8 bags. So, maybe that movie is really, “Alexander and the Terrible Power, Horrible Speed, No Good Average, But Not Awful Day?” I’ll give him the projections of 57/15/64/.250/8. That puts him in solid NL-Only territory, but a guy that will most likely be overrated for mixed leagues if he gets the job early in spring training. At some point in the near future, Alex Guerrero will likely say, “I’m in Corey Seager’s car — BROOM BROOM.” And Corey Seager will say, “Get out me car.” But I bet that doesn’t happen until 2016 (unless Guerrero really bumblefudges his opportunity this spring, and even then Erisbel Arruebarrena — say that name fast 117 times! — could sneak in.)
Grey, I appreciate the feedback.
Dynasty roto league. RIos a good get for my Anibal?
Gracias!
Hanley to Boston….Wow! I’m guessing there’s a trade or two in the works to acquire pitching. I could see Cespedes to Seattle for Iwakuma or a youth package to Philly for Hamels. Perhaps the Reds acquire some offense for one of their arms too. Lineup prediction for the BoSox?
@Ron The Vegas Trip Winner: Hanley will play third unless they also get Panda. If they get Panda too I could see Cespedes moved for arms
@ArsAryc: Papi is their only lefty bat. They may need to rectify that too.
@ArsAryc: Also, I think it would be a bad move to sign Sandoval now. Hanley is a horrible SS.
@Ron The Vegas Trip Winner: if they sign panda, Hanley goes to left field, thus making the trade of cespedes infinitely more likely
@ArsAryc: I see what you mean now. They are going to need to trade for or sign starting pitching though so I’m betting they are out of the market for Sandoval.
@ArsAryc: I could see Victorino to the Reds for Leake with Boston eating some cash on the deal.
@Ron The Vegas Trip Winner:
I seriously hope not, I am from Cincinnati and if we start selling we need to get young cost controlled talent, not stop gaps.
@ArsAryc: Oh and I am all for the reds having a fire sale
I understand that Cold is not in your wheelhouse for music, but comparing them to creed made a small portion of my insides die.
It is akin to saying a very good hip hop artist sounds like ICP…
Thanks to Grey, JFOH & Nick for yesterday’s knowledge. Unfortunately, I had a social engagement I had to attend and I wasn’t able to relay my thanks before leaving. Once I’m not so busy with work, I intend to use it and broaden my musical horizons. Thanks again.
@Militant Vegans: No sweat buddy
No problem
@Militant Vegans: Word
Hey Grey, thanks in advance.
Which closer should I offer for Aoki?
Reed Benoit Perkins or Mcgee. Long term 5×5 roto keep all the roster league.
Thanks!
Reed
You trading Buxton for Bryant if your team is competing n ow in dynasty?
Yup
@MB: tell me if i’m wrong but isn’t bryant ahead of buxton these days for any type of reason?
@Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey: except of course for steals and owning Twin’s prospects.
Today is a gift
That’s why they call it the present
That’s also why they say present arms
Cuz they’re full of tiny little gifts…
Is that Journey?
@Grey: I just wrote it right now butthole. Butt, yeah, this is a journey. And you are your own Kumare. Butt, it is Hard to Earn. And, as your own Guru. You are a shining Starr. The premier Starr in the constellation of Guru. Hey, magine if you told Santa to present arms?
I could’ve sworn Journey wrote a Christmas song called Present Arms. I could be wrong.
@Grey: You’re prolly thinking of the musical that we went to see on Broadway about Pearl Harbor…
Always making a Buck-enheimer!
@Grey: Hahaha!
When should RCastillo be targeted in standard 5×5 drafts?
Depends on his PT, probably around 110-125 overall
@Grey: Take him before or after Pollock?
They’re about the same, I’d go Rusney first
@Grey: I went with Rusney at 122 overall. Thanks for the advice.
A new music based list:
The horribly coined Nu-Metal
Deftones – White Pony
Nothingface – Violence
Mudvayne – The End of All Things to Come
Snot – Get Some
Cold – Cold
(Hed)PE – (Hed)PE
Flaw – Through the Eyes
Taproot – Blue-sky Research
Coal Chamber – Coal Chamber
Sevendust – Sevendust
These are the top 10 Albums from this genre in my humble opinion. I also limited bands to 1 album on the list so that anyone interested in listening to these had a wider variety
Since Nu-Metal was such a broad Genre and a lot of these bands also fit into other genres, please do not devolve into a discussion about how one of these bands might fit better into a different category, it has been done plenty on the internet already
@ArsAryc:
I purposefully left Korn off the list as they get way more credit than they deserve already. I guess I can honorable mention them since their first two albums were actually very very good:
Korn – Life is Peachy
@ArsAryc:
Other Honorable mentions:
Tool – Ænima
Marilyn Manson – Mechanical Animals
Machinehead – the Burning Red
I’ve heard of these honorable mentions, don’t know any songs by them either…
@ArsAryc: The Tool album is the stand out in that bunch for me. My favorite song by them is prolly 46 & 2. Opiate is very solid as well.
Deftones and Mudvayne are the ones I’ve heard of and I don’t know any songs but either…
@Grey: this stuff is more Sky’s department. never took a liking for this genre…now where is he with a snappy gif right about now?
Yeah, I don’t know it at all… Too trench coat mafia for me… Definitely a Sky thing…
@Grey: It’ actually more of bro tunes. Some very good musicians playing very similar sounding music with very very similar sounding singing styles. It’s yawnstipating
I don’t know it enough to even comment…
@Grey: sadly I do BTW I saw your husky doppleganger today. He was you with about 50 extra pounds and a wife that had a good three inches on him.
You should’ve took a pic with them!
@Grey: They were going the other way and I had my hands full.
Hmm…Sounds like a C for effort… Take pics with my doppelgangers!
@Grey: it would of been awkward, hey can you hold my groceries while I take a picture of you?
G, i saw above you said you arent the biggest Beastie fan but have you heard Paul’s Boutique? It’s a masterpiece of sampling and a severely underrated hip hop album.
Yeah, I own it (though that doesn’t always mean I’ve listened), and I like it… I feel like it’s over my head a little… I like more ‘listenable’ stuff and less heady… If that makes sense…
@Grey: Yup makes sense, it is a bit much to take in all at once. I love it though for its originality, great sample work and always love the overlapping style of rhyme they have, gotta be a challenge crafting veses with 3 voices all intertwined like that. Beastie isnt for everyone but I think it’s easily their best work.
See, and my favorite Beastie album was easily Hello Nasty… Then was the only one I could listen to from cover to cover, so to speak
@Grey: Ah yeah i’m just more partial to the earlier stuff but I feel ya, it’s all good to me.
@Grey: I actually saw a guy who did the whole album with random but relevant clips and did this song a little better
Really? Hunh.
Great writeup, as always, Grey! Which risky player do you like better in a keeper league, Prince Fielder or Alex Rios?
Thanks! Fielder
How early is too early for Wong? Man, that’s a loaded question.
Ha… I’m going to be very aggressive for Wong (hehe) next year… Maybe around 75 overall…
@Grey: Thanks for the quick reply. He’s on my radar in a slow draft I’m doing right now and considering taking him 89th overall. I wish I knew he would have a top of the order spot lined up. I’m thinking the Cards go something like this:
Carpenter
Heyward
Holliday
Adams
Molina
Peralta
Wong
Jay
I’ve seen Heyward, Wong, Carpenter, Holliday, Adams
@Grey: I like the look of that. Maybe I’ll roll the dice.
@Ron The Vegas Trip Winner: I’ve heard some rumors that the Cards are contemplating dropping Carpenter down in the lineup
@Matt: Wong over Pedroia?
@Matt: they don’t mean much down when they say that.
@Grey: Wong over Pedroia?
Yup
@Grey: yeah, with wong being sure he’s got a job he should finally show that he had great on base skills in minors.
had an interesting discussion re: music last night. people were discussing what year(s) were best for music. the discussion was rock-centric but my perspective was different from most people in that I believe there were “local scenes” that influenced music, not the years in that it was produced.
for instance, 1967 wasn’t necessarily a great creative year for music. Instead what you had was a scene in london (beatles, stones, jimi hendrix, clapton). Because you had all these bands making music in the same place, produced by the same producers, everyone being influenced by the same sound, you created the 1967 sound.
the same could be said of metal and manchester, the strip and hair metal, seattle and grunge, late 70’s and the NY/CBGB bands, detroit in the late ’60’s with Iggy, MC5.
since my knowledge of hip hop is limited and other than the whole eastside/westside thing, were there geographical pockets and scenes that produced hip hop music that became the staple sound of the industry as a whole?
From the start, everything came from New York or LA… South, Texas, Florida, Chicago, London, etc. all have distinct sounds, but they come from East or West… East was first, but West had its own sound that wasn’t anything like what was heard on the East… What I think you’re talking about happened briefly with the South… Outkast, Master P, Jermaine Dupri, they all dominated for a few years, but it’s not the staple sound, so it doesn’t fit your analogy perfectly…
@Grey: Thanks, Grey. I was just wondering because there seemed to be this whole renaissance of (for lack of a better term) R&B/HipHop/Dance/Urban music in the late ’80s and early ’90s. Just amazing!
Throw in Yo! MTV Raps and you had a great era of music.
Yeah, I wouldn’t say that period was a renaissance for hip hop, more of a birth into the mainstream consciousness…
@Grey: definitely for hip hop. ok… stupid question #2, where do groups like the Sugar Hill Gang, Grand Master Flash & the Furious Five, Afrika Bambaataa fit into all of this? And I know they were some of the most prominent acts of the early sound, but who were their influences?
As for myself, I discovered Afrika Bambaataa after listening to Rage’s rendition of “Renegades of Funk”.
I feel like Nick might be more of a historian than me, maybe he could weigh in… Those guys were the pioneers of hip-hop, and their influences were Isaac Hayes, Gil Scott Heron and James Brown and Richard Pryor, which were taking cues from 60’s poets, who were taking cues from jazz poetry, which was taking cues from African poets… I believe… Again, I’m no historian…
@Grey: cool. you know, I think I’ll do some research on my own and maybe jump into a conversation when I’m a little bit more versed on the subject.
“More versed” I see what you did there…
@Militant Vegans: Miguel Pinero’s poetry was an early influence of hip hop
@Militant Vegans: Grey is pretty spot on with his analysis, the guys he named were some of the biggest influences to hip hop. The 3 most influential would probably be Gil Scott Heron, Isaac Hayes (who actually had tracks of his rhyming called ‘Ikes raps in the early 70’s) and James Brown but he’s definitely right about comedians being a part of it too, Pryor, Redd Foxx, Rudy Ray Moore, Flip Wilson. Their narratives and techniques used to tell stories about social conditions paved the way for the style emcees crafted lyrics. Even people like Mohammed Ali had impact on the style of rhyming words and strong vocals. Funk, soul and jazz are the foundation of the creation of hip hop. Earth Wind and Fire, George Clinton, Donnie Hathaway, Isaac Hayes and in Bambaataa’s case the group Kraftwerk were the basis for the jazzy rhytmic sound. The rapping started from DJ’s, Kool Herc being the first widely known, talking over the records they played which were alot of James Brown type records. In alot of ways, I think the people you mentioned were the inspiration for themselves to be able to tell stories of hardships, racism, rebellion in a way that the everyday young black male in NYC could relate to. Grey was correct that each step of the way came from somewhere else and traces back throughout the century. The only thing i’d say is that it being brought into the mainstream conciousness was in its own way a renassaince. The golden era from the early 80’s to the early 90’s is equivalent in many peoples eyes as growing up in the great jazz era. That decade was as unique as any era was. Everything in that 10 year span was jazz riffs and loops, samples from funk and soul, scratching, dancing, battling, house parties, everything that hip hop should be. True art, as true as any other.
Well said!
@Grey: Thanks!
@Grey: damn neither of you mention Herbie Hancock. from his massive contributions to the evolution of funk to the importance of Rockit.
@J-FOH: Very true, he was a big part to many genres for decades. Rockit is the epitome of influening hip hop’s evolution. Anyone who’s seen Scratch knows how important it was in bringing turntable shit to light.
@nick the dick: it’s also my ringtone
@J-FOH: Ha not too shabby
Yeah, that’s true
@Militant Vegans: When referencing Clapton in 1967 would you please refer to the group….Sorry, a little pet peeve here.
Now that I got the ball busting out of the way. Sometimes it can be hard to pin point things unless you jump really deep into not only the place but also what was going on at that time. There are a lot of environmental elements that can contribute to something we may never think of. For instance understanding the evolution of different punk scenes that evolved into hardcore scenes can be traced right down socio economic conditions as well as proximity to live entertainment.
That whole NYC thing of course is an easy one to follow because it’s NYC and thats what people are fascinated by. Reed/Velvet/ Dolls, to keep it simple, then everything just poured out from there not just musically but artists taking chances with their sound. The hard part in tracing things in NYC is so many people came from other places.
The best is how much music changed by the accessibility to instruments and the creation of pop music led to people trying to imitate what they heard and now saw but because they couldn’t play very well created new forms of music. In a nutshell the creation of 60’s garage/psychadelic bands led to what influenced the earliest punk rock which helped evolve hardcore metal grunge and where we are now. If you go back and read up on some of the pioneers of the slow evolution of punk rock all reference the Seeds “Pushin to Hard” and Love’s “7 and 7 is” as key influences of what they wanted to do. Part of the appeal of Iggy is his on stage persona to go along with that crazy voice. Interesting side note, one of his biggest influences was Jim Morrison. He loved the stage presence and the leather pants. Thats why iggy was always performing in leather pants an no shirt. Speaking of Iggy again, you bring up Detroit and Iggy/ The Stooges, who even though they were from there, recorded and hung in LA quite a bit. Bowie being one of the obvious peeps. Listen to Funhouse, thats a crazy album.
I’m done rambling, i hope its coherent enough to get
@J-FOH: lots of coherent thoughts there, JFOH. i apologize for the inadvertent faux pas re: Cream… between ginger baker, underrated jack bruce, and clapton you had lots of talent and one of my favorite bands. my point was more to the incestuous (and not in the bad way) nature of music scenes. nothing is separate in music. it all intertwines and that’s what so fascinating about it.
don’t forget the amp cutting of the kinks, the post punk bands like magazine, the down under bands like the saints and earlier artists like the easybeats, the detroit band Death, deafening sound of blue cheer, not to mention the southbay hardcore bands, the nocal/socal comparison… truly a rabbit hole to enjoy getting re-lost in.
@Militant Vegans: no forgetting here, just only so much I can throw in. The southbay which then floated south to the OC where you had a hardcore scene evolve while at the same time a “lighter poppier” punk evolved at the same time. The Bay is interesting, like hip hop, they are either really good acts or not even worth mentioning. DK was always way above everyone else. Boston, DC, Canada, and Texas all produced some really cool stuff. Then comes the european psychobilly which is nothing like american
@J-FOH: if you haven’t already done so, check out ‘Roots of the Cramps’. also, two of my favorite comps were ‘Beach Blvd.’ and ‘The Best of Rodney on the ROQ’. Early stuff but it doesn’t get old.
i agree with what you said in a post re: punk music albums vs. songs.
@Militant Vegans: I just looked up beach blvd and is that only 3 bands.
I liked stage diving to the oldies, my favorite is the BYO comp Someone’s Gonna Get Their Head to Believe In Something, and the future looks brighter which was a Posh Boy/ SST labels comp. There are few versions of it. Best of Flipside vinyl isn’t bad either if you can locate it. The sound track to decline is amazing as well.
For instance on iTunes you can get the entire channell 3 catalog for like 5 bucks.
@Militant Vegans: I have a couple of the rodney cassettes
@J-FOH: starting with just before funhouse is (i think) when stooges went to LA. also psychotic reaction by the count five, all that Nuggets stuff that Lester Bangs wrote about.
I worship Grey
Me too!
The Beastie Boys – Paul’s Boutique got an honorable mention early in the thread, and it is easily my favorite hip hop album. I think a lot of people fail to mention or remember just how awesome a lot of the less known beastie albums were. People who know nothing about hip hop can quote songs from licensed to ill, ill communication, and the couple albums after, and while i do love ill communication, it pales in comparison to how awesome Paul’s Boutique is.
@ArsAryc: Precisely
@nick the dick:
Nick,
I do question your using Aquemini instead of ATLiens for Outkast. Aquemini definitely had more “singles” on it, but I feel that ATLiens was better as an album on the whole.
I like a few Beastie songs, but I was never a huge fan, which might be odd since in my eyes I feel like their number one demographic…
@Grey: another demension… another demension… another demension…
@Militant Vegans: dimension works too***ugghh*** memo to self… give brain ample time to detox before typing words
I agree with you, albums are a reflection of time and place. Hearing the first RUN DMC album or Beastie Boys changed my life. Snoop, Dre, Emiem, all of their albums were so much better than anything else at the time. It took me sitting in my flat in London completly bombed out of my head on hash to return to hip hop after taking years off. My room mate played bizarre ride by the Pharcyde and I was blown away. Changed everything for me and got me back to listening to hip hop. For that reason that album means more to me than any other.
@J-FOH: Yeah, it’s all about making a connection to the music. I felt that way when I heard Guns N Roses’ Appetite and then Megadeth’s Rust in Peace. I was digging hip hop at the time too, but my tastes were starting to shift because of those records. Appetite planted the seed, and then Rust and AIC’s Facelift took it from there.
@Big Magoo: being a little older it was Van Halen 1, Motley Crues Shout at the Devil, Ozzy’s Blizzard of Ozz, and Iron Maidens The Number of the Beast/Piece of Mind. Those albums cemented me to the heavier stuff, then a few years later I heard Master of Puppets and it was over….all over again.
Funny that Punk Rock was like Hip Hop for me, it wasn’t an album but certain songs that sucked me in.
@J-FOH: Those are all great albums that you mentioned. I’m more of a Hagar than a Roth guy, but both of them were awesome. Maiden was one of my favorites as well. Dickinson’s a beast, and their guitar work has always been bad ass.
I’ve always been into the heavier stuff, which is probably why I gravitated towards AIC. Very heavy, sludgy riffs and Layne’s vocals just put them over the top for me.
@Big Magoo: you’re a van haggar guy over roth. I need to step away and question our entire relationship. Roth is one of the all time best frontmen of rock.
@J-FOH: Roth is great. No question about it. Tons of charisma. Hagar is more of the meat and potatoes musician though, which I dig. Roth is the flashy showman. The sizzle to Hagar’s steak. Depends what you prefer. Or maybe I’m just hungry.
@Big Magoo: another game changer album was cowboys from hell
I’m not much of a hip hop guy anymore, but Dre and Snoop, Rakim, Big Daddy Kane, Wu Tang, Public Enemy, and the NWA stuff were always staples for me back in the day. I like Ice Cube too, Grey. You’re not alone.
No Naughty By Nature mentions? Are they like the Nickelback of the ’90s hip hop scene or something?
That’s a good call…Totally forgot about Treach… Pin the Tail on the Donkey, and a lot of the B cuts from the self-titled album were better than OPP…
@Grey: They’d be below some of those others for me, but I dug some of their stuff.
Maybe I’ll come out with a top 20 rock/metal list. That’s more up my alley. Offseason music talk with FML Grey Albright. There’s a podcast idea for you…
Ha, totally… It’s actually more Rudy’s bag… He knows way more about music than I do… I don’t know anything but pop and rap…
@Grey: It’s all good. I’d love to talk music with Rudy but he seems to have his hands full these days.
You and Nick and JFOH can school me on the current hip hop scene, and I’ll fill you in on the metal/Seattle scene from the late ’80s until the turn of the century. Deal?
That works!
@Big Magoo: I stopped listening to metal after high school (and, even then, it was hair metal) but listened to a buttload of classic rock, alternative, and rock snob stuff after that. Not a Seattle rock scene fan though. Found it depressing and unrelatable. Preferred 80’s alternative rock like Replacements, Husker Du, and Pixies.
@Big Magoo: wow holy misstep, Naughty absoletely needs to be mentioned.
@nick the dick: I thought I was losing touch for a second. From the ’90s scene, that is. I have no clue what that scene’s like now.
@Big Magoo: I think I lost touch. You, sir, are spot on. Treach is one of the greatest.
@nick the dick: Nah, you seem to know your shizz. I drifted away from hip hop when it started going downhill around the late ’90s, at least to me. Sure, you still had your Eminems, Outkasts, and a few others after that, but I think I was spoiled by that early-mid ’90s time period. So much great stuff back then.
@Big Magoo: Very true, it’ll never be the same.
@Big Magoo: thats when I went to the underground and never looked at the genre the same.
One thing i’ll admit amidst all the debate- Like Water For Chocolate might be better than Resurrection…sorry to turn this into all hip hop comments G
No worries on that, it’s the offseason, it’s whatever goes… So, you’re switching your Common album?
@Grey: Eh, we will call it a tie. I’ll switch it if that gets a good response from you
I’m still not fully behind Common in the top 20, but Like Water does work better for me.
@Grey: couple more honorable mentions are obviously Legends Never Die and also Kurupt’s ‘Kuruption’ double disc album
I was kinda surprised you didn’t mention Rugged the first time… Too recent?
@Grey: yeah that was basically the reason but you know as well as I do it’s up there….Like Water For Chocolate it is
Yeah, this is coming off wrong, I like Common… But Ice Cube is one of the best lyricists of all time, I’d go him, EPMD, Kanye, Outkast, Snoop, Diamond D over Common… Stunts Blunts and Hip Hop!
@Grey: other than Diamond D which crossed my mind, stunts blunts and hip hop is awesome, you lost me…cube is not a great lyricist, his flow is choppy and weird which is the same as EPMD. Great tracks, great albums sure, but their lyrical ability certainly isnt what makes them. They are subpar and i can think of so many emcees that are better lyrically, Common for one. Snoop is a better lyricis? No he isnt. Style is one thing, lyrical content and flow is another. Kanye? Really? *sigh*….you named one better lyricist than Common and thats Andre 3000 and even thats close.
Oh, no, my bad, I meant that for Cube, then just started listing people who had albums I liked better than Common’s best… Snoop’s first album was great, but the whole package, not the lyrics… That’s a time and place thing for me though, and I’m not sure if it would make my top 20… I don’t know, Kanye’s first album is pretty great, again, didn’t mean straight lyrics though… Cube, though, I do think is one of the greatest, he overcame some funky production after NWA and rose on those first few solo albums… Up until about Check Yo Self, It Was A Good Day, I was with Cube…
@Grey: dont get me wrong about Cube, I dont hate him. I understand people like the way he expresses his feelings straight forward good, bad or otherwise. I respect the man and his work. As a technical rapper or lyricist however he is way below average. Like Eazy E, subpar flow and lyrics but makes up for it with style and rawness along with sick beats. Lyrics, wordplay, metaphors, thats what appeals to me more in a rapper. Also he got much much worse with time instead of better. I bought ‘Laugh Now Cry Later’ and it was absolutely awful. I like him, dont love him at all. Just one mans humble opinion.
Yeah, I hear ya… Won’t ever argue time didn’t hurt him… But a lot of these guys weren’t much of anything after 99…
@Grey: awesome call on Diamond D though, i almost put it in the mentions.
Yeah, it’s an album that I think got lost with time since he disappeared… (At least I think he disappeared)
Where the eff is JFOH??!!
He said he’s working late, he’ll be in in a bit…
@Grey: thanks buddy for covering for me
I did my best!
@nick the dick: BE is my favorite commom album. I agree with Grey when it comes to cube. I would of put all eyez on me in there for sure, but this is your list not ours. … Mine would be 50% underground.
@J-FOH: I can dig Be being your fav, just a matter of taste as all his albums are really good (minus his newest one which is dog shit). Sorry I dont agree about Cube, something about him just doesnt agree with me for a top 20 list. I do recognize that he has good albums however. All eyez on me can definitely be on a list, im fine with that. Logic’s album just missed my top 1000.
@nick the dick: how old are you?
@J-FOH: younger than you think i’d imagine
@nick the dick: seriously, it gives me context
@J-FOH: I’m 29
@nick the dick: yeah I got ten years on you, our point of view is very different
@J-FOH: thoughts on my list overall?
@nick the dick: pretty solid, some of the artists I like tracks but not whole albums from. I explain to magoo below, hip hop drew me back in by tracks, not albums. It’s always been hard for me to find a complete work that is great. Good, but never great. I prefer the slim shady EP over the Marshall Mathers album,
@J-FOH: Yeah you’ve told me that before, I understand it. Although I would argue that the vast majority of the albums I listed you could listen straight through and enjoy it all as a whole. Truly great? I dont know, but as close as you can get from hip hop albums I think….I can see liking the Slim album over Marshall but the one I chose feels better put together but theyre both great.
@nick the dick: I will never grow tired of select tracks off slim, like I don’t give a f**k and I still don’t give a f**K
Nick’s Top 20 Hip Hop Albums:
Nwa-Efil4zaggin
Rakim- The 18th letter
Slick Rick-The art of storytelling
Common-Resurrection
Dr Dre-The chronic
Eminem-Marshall mathers lp
De La Soul-3 feet high and rising
Kool G Rap-Roots of evil
A Tribe Called Quest-The low end theory
Bggie-Ready to die
Wu Tang-36 chambers
DMX-It’s dark and hell is hot
Mos Def-Black on both sides
Big L-Lifestyles of tha poor and dangerous
Pharcyde-Bizzarre ride II the pharcyde
Big Daddy Kane-Long live the kane
The Roots-Things fall apart
Big Pun-Capital punishment
Talib Kweli-Quality
Gangstarr-Daily operation
Honorable Mentions:
Nas-It was written
Busta Rhymes-Extinction level event
Outkast-Aquemini
UGK-Ridin’ dirty
Ghostface Killah-Supreme Clientele
Method Man-Judgement day
Black Moon-Enta da stage
Redman-Muddy waters
Beastie Boys-Paul’s boutique
EPMD-Strictly business
*Note: all selections are subject to change
@nick the dick:
I will present my list later. It will be favorites as opposed to best. There are some albums that I can admit are higher quality than some of my favorites.
@Wallpaper Paterson: Cool, this is definitely my favorites not neccessarily best
Lot to process here, and I’m at the doctor’s office right now… So I’ll go one that sticks out… Love some Common songs, don’t know if I can behind Resurrection in the top 20…
@Grey: wow thats the one that stands out? Common deserves to be on a top list as he is as consistent as anyone in hip hop and has as good a catalog as anyone. Resurresction is just my personal favorite, its a fantastic album. It was close with ‘Like water for chocolate’ and ‘Be’ though. These also are not in any order and I only did one album per artist to be fair.
I like Like Water for Chocolate so much better, not even really close… Be would be behind that… Resurrection is a distant third. Not even sure he deserves to be in the top 20 though, honestly.
@Grey: I disagree, Resurrection is slightly better than Like Water. He deserves to be in MY top 20.
@Grey: Now that I look at it, I suppose that is the one that doesnt quite fit but thats why its all subjective.
I like other NWA albums better too… An Ice Cube solo album above Common any day…
@Grey: Yes I know you like Straight Outta Compton better but I dont. And I also know you are a big Cube fan whereas I am not. I like his old stuff but not enough for a top list.
He had two albums that were better than anything Common’s done.
@Grey: Cubes lyrics are consistently subpar and I like Common better anyday. Save it for your list FML!! Any way to coax a positive response out of you?
Ha, I need to go over your list when not laying in a doctor’s office, but the inclusion of Common and exclusion of Cube were the only ones that stick out at me, so I love a lot of these… Pharcyde I might be able to replace too…
@Grey: I could probably replace Pharcyde as well with one of the honorable mentions but its very good. Ask the doctor to give you a pshych test for this Ice Cube Syndrome while youre there…
Ice Cube gave us Nappy Dugout Dead Homiez, Who’s the Mack, Steady Mobbin, Jackin’ for Beats… In the span of about nine months… And he was the best lyricist in NWA…
@Grey: yes he did. Great tracks. Dont know why but hes not my favorite. And he was not the best lyricist in NWA at least to me. I like them all better, MC Ren first.
You like them all better than Cube? Wow, surprised to hear that… I feel like I read or heard somewhere that Cube wrote everyone’s lyrics for them…
@Grey: yeah ive heard that about Cube too, maybe im way off….
Yeah, I’m not sure, but his lyrics on his solo albums support that, and lack of anything on Ren or Easy support it too…
@Grey: It’s okay, you can admit its a solid list for something only based on opinion.
@Grey: My wife and I used Common’s ‘The Light’ as the song she walked down the aisle to at our weddding
I used to use ‘it doesn’t take a whole day to recognize sunlight’ on unsuspecting girls…
@Grey: HA you sly devil
Fantasy Master Lothario, don’t abbreviate it.
@nick the dick: also note these are in no particular order and i only used one album per artist/group
I’m in no way pretending to know as much about hip hop as you guys, but I follow along in comments and just gotta say I wore out Stakes is High. Still play that album today.
@Mike: Man Mike, I almost went with Stakes Is High over 3 Feet High but I thought it would be frowned upon. Such a fantastic album.
Stakes is High is crazy good too…
@Grey: So so good.
BTW, I’m going to see De La in December…
@Grey: Awesome!!
nice
@nick the dick:
My list (in alphabetical order by artist)
Black Moon “Enta Da Stage”
Brotha Lynch Hung “Season of da Siccness”
Dr. Dre “The Chronic”
Eminem “The Marshall Mathers LP”
Genius/GZA “Liquid Swords”
Goodie Mob “Soul Food”
Gravediggaz “6 Feet Deep”
Jay-Z “Reasonable Doubt”
Kendrick Lamar “good kid, m.A.A.d. city”
Makaveli “The 7 Day Theory”
Mobb Deep “The Infamous”
Nas “Illmatic”
The Notorious B.I.G. “Ready to Die”
OutKast “Aquemini”
Raekwon “Only Built 4 Cuban Linx…”
Scarface “The Diary”
Slick Rick “The Great Adventures of Slick Rick”
Smif-N-Wessun “Dah Shinin'”
2Pac “All Eyez On Me”
Wu-Tang Clan “Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)”
@Wallpaper Paterson: Nice list man! A few I considered for my list like Cuban Linx, Liquid Swords, All Eyez On Me The Infamous and The Diary. I left off Resonable Doubt cuz I didnt want to get into it with Grey and JFoh. Also I think It Was Written is better than Illmatic regardless of it being a classic and all. Solid, solid list though.
@nick the dick: Thanks.
It is tough making a list. I had two GFK albums right there, couldn’t decide between Ironman and Supreme Clientele. In the end, neither made my top 20.
I like Paid in Full and Follow the Leader but all Rakim really does is rap about how he has better rap skills than everybody else.
I considered Fear of a Black Planet, ATLiens, Doggystyle, The College Dropout, Hell on Earth, Murda Muzik, E. 1999 Eternal, Internal Affairs, and Firing Squad.
911 is a Joke, Brothers Gonna Work It Out, Burn Hollywood Burn… Hard to beat those… Oh and Cube’s on that last track too…
@Wallpaper Paterson: yup both GFK albums deserved consideration. All those others are great too, nice honorable mentions. I loove Hell on Earth, 1999 eternal, Murda Musik, Black Planet (as well as It Takes a Nation of Millions), ATLiens and Doggystyle…as far as Rakim I just had to choose one, theyre all good. Hes the best of all time and my favorite rapper ever. 18th Letter is the best overall even though the others are classics.
@Wallpaper Paterson: worst part of your list: Kendrick Lamar. Best part: no Ice Cube
@nick the dick: I like the Westside Connection album. I liked Predator too.
@Wallpaper Paterson: Im just razzin Grey with the Cube shot
Love the Scarface album in there, not a huge fan of Makaveli… The Raekwon album is ridiculous too…
@Grey: Yeah I almost put Scarface in, great album. He has quite a few good ones.
Scarface is one of those that I would never think of but time and again if someone mentions it I’ll be like oh yeah he’s great…
@Grey: yup exactly. The Fix, Last of a Dying Breed, Mr. Scarface and The World Is Yours are also great
Yup, never thought of, always terrific…
@Grey: Yeah, the Makaveli album was kind of scattershot. I enjoy it though and is probably one of my top 10 most listened to albums.
I’ll have to give it a bit more of a listen… Wasn’t crazy about the whole thing though from what I remember…
Are you suggesting Guerrero can play SS?!? Because that would be way, way off. This guy cannot play SS in the majors. No chance. He can’t even play 2B or 3B. I think your projection is low if he gets 550 PA. The question with this guy is playing time.
Where can he play? All we know for sure is he can play a really bad 2B in AAA. LA already has a bad fielding 2B who provides offense in Dee. Neither Dee or Alex can play SS in the majors. Dee failed miserably there and Alex would be much worse. Unfortunately, all signs indicate Guerrero should be a LF, but Los Angeles happens to have the most crowded OF in baseball. Interestingly, due to Guerrero’s contract clauses they cannot send him to AAA in 2015. He has to be in the majors. And they probably cannot trade him because he has an opt-out-if-traded clause that makes it very difficult to deal him. I love this guy’s bat, but because of the glove and contract he’s most likely going to be LA’s 5th OF / pitch hitter.
Gordon would move to SS and Guerrero would play 2B… I doubt he plays outfield…
@Grey: It’s pronounced Gore Don.
Oh, yeah, my bad!
@Grey: That’d be nice if Dee Gordon could play SS (already tried and failed miserably) and if Alex could play 2B. But he cannot. Just because Boras sold him as a 2B coming out of Cuba doesn’t make it so. He was really awful at 2B in AAA, very stiff by all accounts. He cannot make the turn for DPs to save his life. He’s simply not an MLB infielder. That is not one man’s opinion, its the industry consensus at this point.
Guerrero was played all over the diamond in AAA after he returned from the ear incident to prepare him for a utility role. His only playing time after being called up to the majors in September came in LF. Sorry, but it doesn’t sound like you did your homework on this guy at all.
Guess we’ll see what the offseason brings…
@Some Guy: I think Guerrero could play a BAD 2B at the major-league level, but I agree the Dodgers would be foolish to run out a bad option at 2B and a bad option at SS (which Dee would be). That said, Arruebarruena can’t hit, so I would see them picking up a SS in the free agent market and leaving Gordon at 2B.
Not quite the earful I was expecting but clEARly an EARly assessment of note.
It does appEAR that way
@Grey: HA! yuck… yuck… yuck…
And no mention of one eared Alex? I hear he already has a role in the Dodgers charity play “the Goonies”.
Yeah, I tried to work it in, fell one ear short…
@Grey: if this was on paper I’d ear mark this one