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With ace-of-the-staff years dating back to 2002, Roy Halladay was the franchise.  Well, the Blue Jays front office gave the Blue Jays fans the kanye shrug.  While most pitchers go from good to great or great to mindblowing in the NL, Halladay will have to deal with Citizens Bank.  He doesn’t have much history to go on there, but it obviously favors hitters more than Rogers Centre, where Halladay had a 3.23 career ERA.  I think we can nullify that park disadvantage with all the weaker lineups and the pitchers he’ll get to face.  In his career interleague play, he has a 17-8 record, 3.02 ERA. 1.14 WHIP and 165 Ks in 220 and a third innings.  Sounds like a solid projection for Halladay’s 2010, just add twenty more Ks.  Anyway, here’s some more deals that went down yesterday and what they mean for 2010 fantasy baseball:

Cliff Lee – Heads to the Mariners.  If there’s one place a pitcher shouldn’t mind going, it’s Safeco.  (Safeco, Petco, Metco… Throw out the humidor and just rename the park Coorsco.)  Lee benefited from his move to the NL (though his ERA says different), but it wasn’t like he was languishing in the AL prior to the trade.  With the Indians last year through July, his ERA was 3.14.  His K-rate in the NL last year bumped up his overall strikeouts, so we shouldn’t expect more than a 7 K/9.  Still good for a mid-3 ERA, 1.25 WHIP and 160 Ks with the Mariners.

John Lackey – Heads to Bahston.  Now Boston reporters can misspell his name Larkey and it would be pronounced the same way.  If only his first name were Nomar, then it would sound like no malarkey.  Larkey will be immediately overrated in 2010 fantasy baseball drafts.  He hasn’t been able to get over 200 innings since 2007 and his K-rate has been dropping for a few years now.  For those out there that say he’ll now get more wins, the Angels weren’t exactly a 50 win team and he’s had only 12 and 11 wins the last two years, respectively.  In 2010, I’d put him down for a high-3 ERA, 1.30 WHIP and 130 Ks in 165 innings.

Michael Taylor – When I was deciding who would get a 2010 fantasy baseball rookie post, I looked at Michael Taylor.  He fell short because I couldn’t figure out what value he was going to have on the Phillies.  There was just no room for him in the outfield.  No longer a problem.  Taylor heads to the Jays.  Lind slots into the DH spot and Taylor goes into left.  Or someone can just make Vernon Wells glue.  Taylor will be 24 in a few days  — go to Benihana for your birthday, they give you free pineapple chunks — and he has done all he needs to do in the minors.  Last year split between Double and Triple A, Taylor went 20/21 with a .320/.395/.549 line.  It’s not far fetched to think he could be an early front runner for the 2011 AL ROY award and a 15/15 candidate.  Assuming Taylor’s penciled into the the lead-off spot, I’d give him a projection of 85/12/60/.280/15 with upside from there.  Definitely worth owning in leagues 12 team and deeper.

Phillippe Aumont – Stephen went over the Phillippe Aumont fantasy.  He goes to Philly.  Or, more appropriately, Philli.  (For those keeping score at home, Phils get Halladay, the M’s top pitching prospect, Aumont, and Tyson Gillies — more on him in a second.  M’s get Lee.  Jays get D’Arnaud, Taylor and the Phils top pitching prospect, Kyle Drabek and/or Happ.  As of press time, this wasn’t all entirely clear.)  Aumont will be given the opportunity to make the club as bullpen help, but probably won’t be up until midseason at the earliest.  He has no clear cut path to the Phils closer job yet.  But wait until Lidge pitches.

Tyson Gillies – Elias Sports Bureau said there’s more L’s in this trade than any other trade in the history of baseball.  Actually, they didn’t say that; they’re in the Antilles on vacation.  As mentioned above, Gillies heads to the Phils.  Gillies fantasy prospects were broken down already.  He’s at least a year away unless the Phils are hit by major injuries.

Travis D’Arnaud – Sent from the Phils.  He’s still at least a year or two away, but he could be the catcher of the future for the Jays.  The catcher of the present is…

John Buck – Evidently, they’re replacing a real cowboy (Doc Halladay) with one of the midnight variety.  Buck has some cheap pop and nothing else for AL-Only leagues.

Mike Cameron – Signs with Boston and signals that the Sawx are done waiting for Bay or Holliday.  Then again, they have four competent outfielders when most clubs don’t have two so they could still stuff their cheeks with a few more acorns.  Cameron’s presence will be no present for Jeremy Hermida.  See what I did there?  Hermida’s value takes the biggest hit.  He could end up doing nothing but platooning against tough righties.  That’s assuming J.D. Drew stays healthy and, as they said in China in the 1400s, assuming makes an ass out of you and Ming. Cameron hasn’t stolen 20+ bases since ’06 and at 37 he probably won’t get there again.  He’ll likely bat at the bottom of the order, which will help with RBIs.  He’s a decent 5th outfielder in 12 team leagues for teams that need assurance over upside.

Hideki Matsui – To the Angels.  In his youth, Hideki came to be called Godzilla because of monstrous homers and acne.  Well, he’s still got the acne.  I’d avoid him in fantasy as much for his yawnstipating numbers as for his Utility-only eligibility.

Jason Kendall – Royals get him for two years.  Much like a Ken doll, Kendall has no bat.

  1. Steve says:
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    Elias are also reporting that there has not been as many rimshots heard in a sporting monologue since the days of Bob Hope.

    Go here:

    http://instantrimshot.com/

    and use as as necessary while reading along to the above if you don’t believe me.

    Great stuff, Grey.

  2. Asdrubal Bastardo says:
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    So Halladay moves to a band box in Philly…value goes down.
    Halladay goes to the NL…. value goes WAY up.
    So in my mind, I think he is going to be even better than his studly self next season. But the only thing that worries me is his roughly 1,000 IP over the last 4 seasons? Do you think that will affect him next year? I am not a fan of drafting pitchers high in the draft anyways, but the switch to NL seems too enticing.

  3. Asdrubal Bastardo says:
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    Not 100% sure, but I think Aumont is going to the Jays because the Phillies didn’t want to trade Drabek.

  4. big o says:
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    1st , philly trades lou marson .
    and then , d’arnaud ?
    to compensate , they sign brian schneider ??

    seems short-sighted .

  5. Tony says:
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    i’m baffled by this trade… i know there’s money issues, and lee probbaly wasnt going to sign next year unless he was getting a monster contract etc, but swapping Lee for Halladay? and losing the prospects? I’m very confused. Am i the only one that knows Cliff Lee is 31 and Halladay is 32? These dudes still have alot of gas left in the tank, but i wouldnt be trading the future and signing them to multi-yr deals banking on what they’re gonna produce like when they’re 35….

    maybe i’m just bitter b/c the tribe didnt get much for Cliff Lee and now the Phillies are willing to deal half their organization to do what seems like an apple for an apple trade to me….

  6. steamer says:
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    there are lots of reports that the Jays are getting Drabek or Happ, Taylor & D’Arnaud.

  7. Cheese

    Cheese says:
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    Probably read the 3 greatest things in my life here…

    1. “as they said in China in the 1400s, assuming makes an ass out of you and Ming”

    2. “In his youth, Hideki came to be called Godzilla because of monstrous homers and acne. Well, he’s still got the acne.”

    3. “Much like a Ken doll, Kendall has no bat.”

    Classic!!!!

  8. Cheese

    Cheese says:
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    For some reason it feels as if Halladay is underrated…

    Numbers since 2002:
    130 wins – ranks 1st
    .688 win % – ranks 1st
    13 shutous – ranks 1st
    46 complete games – ranks 1st
    3.13 ERA – ranks 2nd

    I think the thing that stands out most is the 46 complete games. Anyone that keeps the Phillies bullpen off the field is a huge plus. He has a rubber arm, and his workload should not concern anyone. He’s had a few injuries in the past, but they were all freak accidents, and not throwing related issues. He’s potentially the number 2 fantasy pitcher behind Lincecum this season. And remember, he had those numbers while facing the AL East. Ya… nuff said.

  9. Antrim Warriors says:
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    Great title!

  10. Grey,

    Love the blog, but you have a weak grasp of the Bahston accent.

    Larkey = LAHR key
    Lackey = LAH key

    You’d be better off calling him “Lahkey.”

  11. sean says:
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    I guess AA and the TOR brass just didn’t want to have to turn, cough, and trade Doc to the Sox.

    For my money, the most interesting offseason mover/shaker here could be the Mariners. I wouldn’t be surprised if they HAVE to go out and bring in Bay’s bat now. Still, for them to snipe Cliff Lee was an awesome move. Much like we flip closers for real pieces, that seems to be what the M’s did here, except theirs was only a prospect.

    Dave Cameron of FanGraphs/USS Mariner broke down the deal from the M’s perspective here: Aumont is a good relief prospect. He could be in the majors this year, and he’s got all-star closer upside. Gillies is a potential high OBP center fielder with speed. Ramirez has the best arm in the system. They’re all prospects. And the whole lot of them aren’t worth three months of Cliff Lee, much less an entire season.

  12. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: Badum-ching!

    @Asdrubal Bastardo: With Scherzer or other young pitchers, I worry about the innings; I’m not worried about the innings with Halladay.

    @Asdrubal Bastardo: Drabek to the Jays and Aumont the Phils, last I heard.

    @big o: Catchers hitting doesn’t win championships…

    @Tony: Phils are actually getting some decent prospects back. The M’s side I don’t fully understand, but they might feel like they have a window of opportunity to win and they’re going for it.

    @steamer: Yeah, Drabek and/or Happ, as said before. Looks like it’s going to be Drabek, last I heard.

    @Cheese: Thanks for the kind words! And well said re: Halladay.

    @Antrim Warriors: Thanks!

    @Alpine McGregor: Era, it was a stretch for no malarkey. BTW, Snooki loves pickles!

    @sean: I think the M’s got the short end/shortsighted side of the stick in the move. Lee should be great, but they’re giving a lot for a rental.

  13. sean says:
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    @Grey: Well, if the M’s can’t resign Lee, they’ll likely get a couple of great draft picks too.

    Juan Pierre to the White Sox for two prospects. Dodgers also paying half his salary.

  14. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @sean: About time they unchained Pierre.

  15. steamer says:
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    As a Jays fan, wouldn’t be surprised if Overbay is traded & Lind is moved to 1st. I think the Jays see him at 1st long term.

    Halladay is a horse. I would take him 2nd after Lincecum. He is going to destroy the NL, plus he doesn’t have to face the Phillies at all.

  16. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @steamer: Might be right about Overbay. Definitely makes sense.

    ***********You’ll see an ad at the home page in the top right corner for Scoresheet. If anyone wants a free team, let me know. I have one to give out, so first come first served.*******

  17. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Hank: Welcome back and thanks for the heads up! All the better for Taylor, should have an easier time cracking the A’s OF.

  18. Tony says:
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    @Hank: are you serious they dealt the guy already…. WOW

  19. Critter Nagurski says:
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    Halladay doesn’t walk anyone, has a pretty high GB/FB rate, and misses more bats than the adverb. His style suits the Bank well. I never pay for the elite #1 starters, but if I don’t feel like his shift is being valued properly, it’s gonna be tough.

    As a Phillies fan, the worst thing about this trade is that they didn’t get rid of Happ in the process. I probably would have rather seen Happ go than D’Arnaud (and definitely in place of either Taylor ro Drabek)

    I think people have become a little too effusive in their assessment of Drabek. He was easily a top 3 prospect in our system and might wind up being a great #2, but Aumont isn’t chopped liver (is that even a real phrase?). It will be painful to watch Drabek go out there and tear up AA and AAA this year, but I’m still rooting for my boy Taylor

  20. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Critter Nagurski: I agree with you about Happ. Would’ve suited the Phils to lose him instead of Taylor or Drabek, but I still think the Phils did great.

  21. Tony says:
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    cant access that…. haha, at work

  22. Hank says:
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    @Tony: Haha, here’s what he said: “It’s all moving fast: As soon as Halladay deal is done, the Jays are going to trade Michael Taylor to Oakland for Brett Wallace.”

  23. Tony says:
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    @Hank: gotya, i’m wondering what round fantasy wise in a 12 teamer halladay will be going now… i’d think he’ll jump some….

  24. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: He’s a third rounder in most drafts.

  25. Asdrubal Bastardo says:
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    @Grey: I stand corrected. Drabek is going to the Jays.

  26. sean says:
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    @Grey: Halladay’s projected: 17-8/ 3.02/1.14 WHIP/185 Ks in 220 IP seem a little pricey in the third round when Johan is falling into the fourth and fifth and will put up pretty much identical numbers. Am I wrong?

  27. Charlie says:
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    @Hank:

    I’m hearing it’s actually a three-way trade, with Taylor going to the A’s, Wallace going to the Phillies and Halladay going to the Jays. Alex Anthopolous makes the biggest heist in GM history.

  28. Stephen says:
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    I am surprised that everyone is valuing Aumont so high. When I was doing my scouting/reading on him, most scouts said that his value is essentially moot if he stays a reliever. FanGraphs does a great job of valuing players, and, thus, allowing fair comparisons amongst major leaguers. For example, I remember reading that Mariano Rivera, as great as he is, is just as valuable (in terms of WAR – Wins about Replacement) as Gil Meche. Not saying Meche is anywhere near as good at Rivera, however, just that relievers, especially dominate ones like Rivera, are extremely good, they just don’t throw enough innings to be as valuable as a starter. Consequently, if Aumont stays a reliever, like I believe he will be because of his stature and increase in effectiveness when he was moved to the closer position, his trade value isn’t as high.

    Personally, I think the Phillies get the better end of this deal. They get Halladay, decent prospects, and didn’t give up Dominic Brown and kept one of their top young players (JA Happ). However, keeping Drabek would have been a smarter play, Happ already has pitched in the majors and is able to contribute immediately. Plus, they could have kept Lee and still received Halladay, they just would have bumped up their salary by $15 million for a season, or traded Lee at the trade deadline. Not great but still good.

    Nevertheless, Toronto didn’t get enough, and Seattle has Lee for a season of one of their top OF prospects that doesn’t strikeout 40% of the time (cough* Halman * cough) and runs like a bullet while playing defense like the Flash, and Michael Pineda may end up being better than what Aumont, well, could amount up too. They gave up three prospects and received Lee for a year, and if he leaves and doesn’t sign an extention, most likely two draft picks because he should be a Type-A free agent in 2010 offseason.

    Not sure why people are saying Seattle got the better end of this deal. There are too many uncertainties for that to be claimed. Plus, a year rental doesn’t make Seattle the team to beat in the AL, maybe the AL West, but the off season isn’t over.

  29. Stephen says:
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    Here is better prospect writings from Marc Hulet

  30. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @sean: Halladay wasn’t injured last year and hasn’t had a year after year falling K-rate. So, yeah, he’s better than Johan, but it’ll come with the price tag.

    @Stephen: Fangraphs is great, but that’s for straight baseball analysis. I don’t think anyone’s valuing Aumont that highly for real baseball, but if he’s a closer getting saves he’s worth knowing for fantasy.

    As for Seattle getting the better end of this deal, that’s M’s bias, IMO, if I know where you read it and I think I do. He also said in our fantasy baseball team preview for the M’s that Beltre was a star — http://razzball.com/2009-mariners-fantasy-baseball-preview/

  31. Jif & The Choosy Mothers says:
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    Hi Grey,

    Did you give away that free team yet? I’m interested if it’s still available.

    Thanks.

  32. Tony says:
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    @Grey: Johan is def’ly in a decline. I dont consider him near Halladay. With Johans arm issue (even tho he had surgery) I’d be wary.

    Hitters are more likely to have a bounce back than pitchers by far. I wouldn’t gamble on Johan in the 4th or 5th. If i had a choice of johan or wainwright in the 4th or 5th i’m taking wainy everytime.

  33. Stephen says:
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    @Grey: Yeah, I read Dave Cameron’s article at USS Mariner, but also Yahoo’s Jeff Pasan is saying that the Mariners got the better end of the deal, Toronto so-so, and the Phillies didn’t do anything to improve. BAH, Pasan is crazy.

    Anyway, I was just trying to make a comparison about the value of relievers, even dominate ones, reduces the overall value of the player. The saves are definitely valuable for fantasy purposes, agreed. I wasn’t trying to dismiss that part of you article, I was just saying that Aumont is getting valued a bit over his actual performance. He has one pitch, a high 90′s fastball and is wild. Oh well, I still think Seattle, if they don’t sign Lee, are the definite losers of this trade if they don’t make a long run into the playoffs.

  34. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Jif & The Choosy Mothers: I just emailed you the info, assuming your email you use to comment is the right one. If it isn’t, give it to me and I’ll send it along.

    @Tony: Yeah, Johan’s in decline, but he’s still a top ten pitcher. Round 5 doesn’t seem terrible for him, if others are off the board and he falls to you at the right time.

  35. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Stephen: That’s crazy talk that the Phils didn’t improve.

  36. sean says:
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    @Tony:
    I’m not sold on Wainwright, even though he really helped my team last year. I think the sentiment is way too high on him and will inflate his ADP well beyond his value.

    2008 Wainwright is the perfect example of a guy who gave you 2-3rd round value with an 8th round pick. I just don’t think I want to gamble a 4-5th round pick that he’ll repeat.

    That’s especially because he should find himself on the risky pitchers for 2010 post. Last year he threw 3614 pitches, and 43.2% of those pitches were breaking balls (19.2% slider and 24% curveball). That’s a ton of arm strain on top of the mental pressure to repeat.

    While I loved Wainwright last year, I think he’ll probably be a YPNM-type guy for me this year.

  37. sean says:
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    Edit: 2009 Wainwright, 2008 was Wainwright: The Lost Tapes

  38. Roy Halladay isn’t that good Grey he got no saves last year

    ERA W-L SV K
    2.79 17-10 0 208

  39. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @mrbaseball: So true. An often overlooked aspect of his game.

  40. I heard a rumor that Jose Reyes – Took batting practice yesterday.

  41. Dingo says:
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    (Safeco, Petco, Metco… Throw out the humidor and just rename the park Coorsco.)

    Wasn’t “Metco” coined at Razzball?

  42. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Dingo: Yeah, it’s global now. (Was waiting for someone to catch that.)

  43. Steve says:
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    @Grey: Halladay is the master of the 9-inning save.

  44. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: Very true. Brad Lidge probably is most excited about the Halladay deal. At least 7 saves a year that he won’t have an opportunity to blow.

  45. Steve says:
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    @Grey: I hope that Madson doesn’t have an appearance clause in his contract…

  46. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: It is the right season for a clause — hey-yo!

  47. Dingo says:
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    @Grey: Happy to oblige. How dare you be self-referential!

    Also:

    As mentioned above, Gillies heads to the Phils. Gillies fantasy prospects were broken down already. He’s at least a year away unless the Phils are hit by major injuries.

    Put another way, Gillies won’t play for the Phillies unless they get hit by *pinky to mouth* the “illies”?

  48. Steve says:
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    @Grey: You didn’t hear it, but I just threw a rimshout out there.

  49. Freak says:
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    How did you miss the obvious “Gillies to the Phillies” play on words?

  50. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Freak: I missed it, sillie.

  51. tony says:
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    @sean: Wainy did have a 100 inning spike, but I think he’ll be fine. He had a low inning count in 2008 bc he was hurt. His 2007 totals were 202. 2009 was 233. He’s basically coming into his prime this year at 28 years old. I agree I dont know if I can spend a 5th round pick on him, but if he falls to the 6th I’d have to say I am veryhappy to snag him there…

    @Grey: i’m not touching JOHAN. Even if its the 5th… I try and avoid guys like him as much as possible. And by guys like him I mean 30+ yr old pitchers who just had surgery.

  52. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @tony: I could see avoiding him. There’s really no reason to take any of the top five or so pitchers.

  53. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: Hey, so how did you do in your inaugural fantasy football season?

  54. Steve says:
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    @Grey: First of all, thanks for asking – I am soooooo bored right now and need someone to talk to.

    So, anyway. I missed the big boy playoffs with a 7-6 record and I’m locked in a celebrity two-week deathmatch with BSA in the first round of the playoffs in the ‘consolation’ bracket.

    I beat his sorry ass twice in the regular season, but he’s getting a large measure of revenge after the first week. My team’s essential crappiness, which had remained papered over for much of the season, has finally been laid bare for all to see.

    Elsewhere, only two more sleeps til we move out of the in-laws and into the new house…

  55. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: That’s exciting about the new house. Better put your James Shields poster right above the fireplace. You vs. BSA? Wow, that makes it hard for me to root. Kinda like Sophie’s Choice.

  56. Doug Ault says:
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    Brett Wallace should be called “Thunder Thighs”

    I hope it’s muscle

  57. Steve says:
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    @Grey: You know you want to support the plucky little Kiwi.

    James Shields? Has a place in my house, but it’s not the lounge, that’s for damn sure.

  58. Stephen says:
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    An interesting note about Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay that it seems no one is mentioning.

    Career Ground Ball rates:

    Halladay: 56.2% (5th best for a pitcher with over 1000 IP for their career)
    Lee: 37.7% (68th overall for a pitcher with over 1000IP)

    *there were only 73 pitchers in this analysis, aka, pitchers with over 1000 IP that fangraphs has.

  59. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Doug Ault: Ha!

    @Steve: I think The Plucky Kiwis should be your fantasy team name.

  60. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Stephen: Yeah, noticed that, but he’s so tough to hit didn’t think I needed to mention it.

  61. Steve says:
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    @Grey: That’s not a bad idea! I’m currently the Flightless Birds in Hippo’s keeper, but I can feel a name change coming on. Will do nicely for the RCL too.

  62. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: Kinda liked the pig box better.

  63. Steve says:
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    @Grey: Oh, pork conquers all, obviously, but who wouldn’t want an Angry Mob playset?

    And which Razzball commenter do you think brought my attention to the pig box? Hint: Read one-eighth of an inch above.

  64. Steve says:
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    Ok, maybe an inch.

  65. NoonTime says:
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    Great post and great comments! Razzball IS holiday cheer! Speaking of… where can I get the official Razzball T-shirt for my stocking stuffing needs?

  66. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: An inch above? Who The Ault Leader? I’m kinda a fan of the Chlamydia Plush Toy.

    @NoonTime: Ya know, those shirts were being produced in a Nike sweat shop that was also handling Tiger’s PR and they’re swamped. Sorry, no shirts.

  67. Steve says:
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    @Grey: His second name is burn…

  68. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Steve: Oh! Good ol’ Pork Burn. Haven’t seen him in a while.

  69. DrEasy says:
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    This one’s for Stephen: how do you feel about the Wallace for Taylor trade between the Jays and the A’s? Seems like Wallace won’t stick at 3B, and Taylor is apparently a freak of nature. I’d have rather kept Taylor.

  70. Simply Fred

    Simply Fred says:
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    @Grey: With the A’s moving Wallace for Taylor, does that mean they are planning to play Fox at 3B (instead of DH)? Taylor have an inside track on an OF slot?

  71. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Simply Fred: Taylor would be a huge defensive upgrade over Fox, which isn’t saying much. Fox will probably bounce around, playing mostly 3B and DH.

  72. Stephen says:
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    @DrEasy: That’s a tough question. I haven’t studied each player much, but from what I’ve read and seen from the numbers, the swap makes sense for both teams. Wallace’s struggles on defense allow the Blue Jays to place him at First base while keeping Lind at DH, or vice-versa. Taylor would provide good defense at a corner spot in the outfield for the A’s while giving the team some nice athleticism. The knock on Taylor is that he isn’t an especially gifted hitter, meaning he works hard to be as good as he is. In other words his natural talent is more or less his speed and defense and less in his stick. Another thing to check, Wallace is nearly a year younger, has more “pedigree” to his skill set.

    Wallace: 52.8 GB% | 18.4 LD% | 28.7 FB% | 8.1 IF/F% in 752 AB | .305/.382/.477 | .351 BABIP
    Taylor: 47.4GB% | 16.2 LD% | 36.2 FB% | 15.4 IF/F% in 1152 AB | .311/.381/.513 | .351 BABIP

    Those numbers show that both of these players hit the ball on teh ground a lot. However, Wallace does a better job of hitting them “harder” and hits much fewer pop-ups. Taylor has the better K:BB ratios, but not by much, and has better power (and ISO).

    Honestly, Taylor may be slightly more ready for playing in the majors, but both have tremendous talent. Not to be wishy-washy, but it is like trading player A1 for Player A2 (sans different positions). Defensively, Oakland is receiving the better player.

  73. Stephen says:
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    @Simply Fred: PS, sorry for the late repsonse. My night had plans made for quite some time and I didn’t see this comment until late.

  74. Tony says:
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    i want a razzball t-shirt as well.

    RCL champ t-shirts would be great, lol

  75. Tony says:
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    Mariners are considering Bay? WOW, when did they get a ton of money and decide to spend it? Have they just been waiting for King Felix to mature and now they’re going for it? If they pull in BAY i’d have to say they’re a top 5 team in baseball.

    Felix and Lee plus figgins, ichiro, lopez, fragu and bay? is branyan still a mariner?

    its starting to look like a real baseball team i will say that…. a solid team.

  76. big o says:
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    @Tony:
    maybe a top 5 team
    west of the mississippi

  77. Tony says:
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    @big o: I dont know big O, i remember a team back in the day that had Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling and those two pitchers took them all the way.

    Seattle is going to play in a weaker division this year. And sure i’d rank the Yankees, boston and Philly ahead of them, but they’ve got alot going for them and if you add BAY they’re pretty solid.

    LAD are good but they dont have pitching like that unless Bills and kershaw take HUGE strides this year.

    Angels are weak/er than usual, depending on what they do.

    I mean who else do you see up there? And you have to figure the AL East can only send two teams most likely Boston and NYY so if the rays improve you’re still only gonna see 2 of the 3 move on.

    Seattle has improved and is looking to get better. I dont know their bullpen, but as of right now their 1-2 combo plus offense (if BAY is added) will be a contender.

  78. sean says:
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    Oakland also signed Dallas McPherson, if I recall correctly, and maybe the A’s will finally give him a shot to be an everyday 3B.

    OAK needs help on both corners. Daric Barton isn’t becoming an all-star anytime soon.

  79. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: Branyan is a Mariner. Is there anyone in that lineup that you’d be afraid to pitch to? Even if they got Bay.

  80. Tony says:
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    @Grey: Personally i’d be afraid of all of them, i seperated my shoulder a year ago, LOL.

    I just think its a solid line up. Whether a pitcher is afraid of any of them probably not, there’s obviously no Pujols type player there whatsoever…. BUT that line up plus two aces and in that league where the angels have been weakened = they’re going to be pretty good. Anytime you have a pitching tandem like that you’re going to be SOLID.

    TOP 5 might be a bit of an exxageration, but they’re very close.

  81. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: I don’t necessarily disagree with you. Two aces can definitely win the whole thing, as you mentioned Johnson and Schilling. Just don’t think Bay pushes a team over. Holliday could.

  82. Tony says:
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    @Grey: Yeah, they have defly went from an alright team to a contender. No matter where they’d be ranked overall.

    If I was cliff lee i would have done everything in my power to stay in philly. Alot of these guys are set for like with money, you think they’d want to win a ring.

  83. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: With the league average around 3.5 mill, Nick Punto’s set for life.

  84. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: Assuming you didn’t have your money invested with Madoff.

  85. Tony says:
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    roto times says that AGON will probably be dealt to BOS within the next 10 days. INSANE. My buddy text me earlier that Boston was going after agon (which we already knew) and MIGGY. I dont know where he heard that? Maybe ESPN radio…. it sickens me more as these teams just keep spending spending spending….

    but fantasy wise agon to boston is MUCH better than miggy to boston, agon needs to get the heck outta that crap hole of a team and park!

  86. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @Tony: A-Gon in Fenway becomes a top 20 overall player. Very excited if it goes through.

  87. Tony says:
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    @Grey: ya he defly moves right next to Howard i’d say?

  88. big o says:
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    @Grey:
    weei discussing buccholz and ellsbury for agon .

    @Tony:
    agree that seattle will improve with lee and bay

    @ all : i like what the braves have done this off-season ,
    and see them giving philly a run for the money , this year .

  89. Grey

    Grey says:
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    @big o: Braves are movers, for sure. What are they saying about A-Gon?

  90. big o says:
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    @Grey:
    there saying that perhaps instead of ellsbury ,
    that s.d. is holding out for the next in line (some hot-shot from rhode island)….
    sorry , i didn’t catch his name …. but apparently the kid’s drawing comparisons to grady sizemore .

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