The first piece of good or bad news for a fantasy baseball owner (at least in non-keeper, snake draft leagues) is their draft order spot.  Everyone has draft order preferences and they often vary by the year.  In some years where there was no overwhelming #1 pick, I preferred a middle pick so I did not have to wait a gazillion picks between turns.  I recall some drafts where I really liked the depth through pick 16 or so and wanted a late first round pick to grab two.  Last year, I wanted a top 2 pick because I felt Trout and Cabrera were clear #1/#2 and I did not want the agita of drafting Braunogenesis (of course I picked #3 and got Braun).

Anyway, I thought it might be an interesting exercise to estimate the value of draft order even though I understand this is typically randomized so this is less ‘strategy’ and more about ‘fate’.  This analysis is based on 12-team mixed leagues but I assume the same principles are in play for deeper league formats.

To estimate the impact of draft order, I took the 2013 End of Season Player Rater dollar value and matched the Player Rater rank with draft selection (e.g., the 1st draft pick is worth the value of the best player, 2nd draft pick worth the 2nd best player, etc.).  Below are the results (index of 103.1 means 3.1% better than average, index of 98.1 is 1.9% below average):

Draft Order Sum $ Value Of Draft Index
1 268 103.1
2 266 102.3
3 263 101.1
4 263 101.2
5 263 101.0
6 261 100.4
7 257 98.9
8 257 99.0
9 256 98.3
10 255 98.1
11 255 98.1
12 256 98.5

The above chart shows that the 1st pick is the most valuable and it goes downhill from there with #12 ever so slightly more valuable than #10/#11.  The driver behind why top picks beat bottom picks is because the differences in player value are greatest in the first round.  The best player (Miguel Cabrera) and 12th player (Hunter Pence) in 2013 were separated by $14 ($40 vs $26) where the 13th player (Cliff Lee) and 24th player (Jose Fernandez) were separated by $3.

The differences between adjacent picks (like #3 vs. #4)  will vary depending upon the value of the 1st round players but, in general, these differences should be negligible (e.g., in 2014, I’d estimate a minor gap at best between 1st and 2nd pick (Trout/Cabrera) but a larger gap than average between 2nd and 3rd).  Even the value of the best pick vs. the worst pick – based on this model – is only a 5% advantage.  That is nothing compared to what is seen at times in fantasy football when there are a small number of elite running backs.

But this model assumes that every team drafted the best possible player based on end of season stats (including pitchers) in the first round.  To figure out how this plays out in real leagues, let’s look at the results of our 64 Razzball Commenter Leagues in 2013.

Below are the average standings points per draft order spot in the 2013 Razzball Commenter Leagues:

2013 Razzball Commenter League Standings Point Averages By Draft Order (64 12-team MLB leagues)
Draft Order Avg Pts Index
1 67.5 103
2 69.7 106
3 68.0 104
4 70.1 107
5 64.1 98
6 65.4 100
7 67.6 103
8 66.3 101
9 63.3 97
10 60.9 93
11 62.1 95
12 60.4 92

This matches up pretty well with my estimated values per draft picks.  The top 4 draft order selections represent four of the five best draft selections and the bottom draft order selections were the least valuable.

The 4th pick proved slightly more valuable than the first 3 picks for one primary reason – Ryan Braun’s lack of availability.  He was only available in 2 of the 64 leagues by the 4th pick.  He was picked first in 17 leagues, second in 27 leagues, and third in 18 leagues, and fourth in 2 leagues.  The 4th pick ended up with less ‘black holes’ as Cano or McCutchen were taken 4th in 52 of the leagues and Trout lasted until the 4th in 5 leagues (the other 7 leagues had 3 Kemps, 2 Pujolses and 2 Brauns).

The slight dip at 5th/6th vs 7th/8th cannot be explained by the actual player selected in the 1st round.  I chalk this up to small sample sizes and that the 5th position is slightly more valuable than the 6th-8th draft positions.

The gap between most and least valuable draft order selection was 14% (107 vs. 93) versus the 5% seen in my estimates.  I think 14% is a more realistic gap between the most/least valuable draft order selections since my model mixed hitter+pitcher values while first round picks are almost exclusively hitters.  So while most of the late 1st round picks in 2013 finished close to predicted value (Fielder, J-Up, Tulo, CarGo all around $18-20), that’s still a $15-$20 gap from Trout/Cabrera and $5-$8 gap from Cano/McCutchen.

If we break down average team standings points by the actual player selected in the first round, the differences are greater since you are isolating the teams with great 1st round picks vs. those that drafted duds.

Below are the players who were drafted in the first round in at least 1/3 of Razzball Commenter Leagues.

Player Avg RCL Pick # of Leagues a 1st Round Selection Avg RCL Team Standings Pts (when selected in 1st round) Index
Miguel Cabrera 1.6 64 77.7 120
Ryan Braun 2.1 64 56.9 88
Mike Trout 2.5 64 71.7 110
Robinson Cano 4.9 63 68.2 105
Andrew McCutchen 5.0 64 70.5 109
Matt Kemp 7.1 63 55.1 85
Albert Pujols 8.0 64 61.5 95
Prince Fielder 8.5 63 68.9 106
Joey Votto 8.5 64 65.6 101
Carlos Gonzalez 9.5 58 66.5 102
Giancarlo Stanton 11.2 46 64.9 100
Justin Upton 12.5 35 63.3 97
Troy Tulowitzki 13.9 24 64.8 100

Not surprisingly, Miggy and Trout owners fared best while Ryan Braun and Matt Kemp owners fared worst.  Just based on the first round selection alone, Miguel Cabrera drafters had a 22 point advantage over Kemp owners and a 21 point advantage over Braun drafters.

I wonder if Kemp hurt owners more than other injured players (like Pujols, TuLo, CarGo, Giancarlo) because 1) he did not perform that well when healthy and 2) his iffy prognosis meant you had to stash him on your roster all year vs. a Pujols who could be dropped once he went for surgery.


  • Everything equal, you want the earliest pick possible in a snake draft.
  • There are negligible differences between draft order spots that are close to one another.
  • While higher draft order helps, it is who you pick that is most important (durr!).  Having the luck to avoid ending up with this year’s version of a Braun/Kemp is crucial for doing well.  (Maybe there’s a tiny bit of skill in here but I think it’s almost all luck.  Clearly players like CarGo and TuLo had known higher injury risk factors but delivered a lot more value than Kemp)



  1. Seano says:

    Am I the only one who quit doing drafts and will only do auctions? Can’t stand not having a chance to get players I really want. I almost always walk away with a team I’m happy with can’t say that with a draft.

    • Mike says:

      @Seano: I had a 16 team auction draft Tuesday and it took me 3 hours and 5 minutes and I was the first one done. I think I will pass on auction drafts.

      • Rags says:


        • Rags says:

          @Rags: This was meant for the main thread of the article, but whatever. Snake drafts are for the weak-willed and infirm.

        • $ strategy – use our $ estimates. Find best source possible for $ in your league’s format. Determine best values at each position (our $ vs average) and start mocking rosters to spend $260 of average prices and max our $. Set a goal of $300 which should mean that each category should be at least $50. I like to be first to $19 for elite closers as they up being bargains vs $15 for a marginal guy.

          Points – Copy/paste out projections into excel to determine projected points (or use the BaseballPress calculator using our steamer projections. Find ADP data. Determine best values. Etc etc

      • Montezuma's Revenge... right now says:

        @Mike: wow, is over 3 hours a long time to spend on a team that you will be spending the next 6 or more months on? gotta love that investment spirit. be careful letting this guy get ya pregnant girls.

      • jbird669 says:


        I went auction and I’ll never go back. My drafts have always taken longer than auctions. I have never had a draft/auction take less than 4 hours. 3 hrs is short!

    • NowIKnowWhyCramHatesYou says:

      @Seano: Agreed. Don’t understand the appeal of snake drafts anymore.

        • burningbridges247 says:

          @Rudy Gamble: Abso-freaking-lutely. I was actually a tad disappointed when I saw it wasn’t an option in RCL.

          • Ok will consider for next year. Introduced NFBC this year as a 2nd option

          • KG says:

            @burningbridges247: I too would love to be in some RCL auction leagues.

        • Seano says:

          @Rudy Gamble:

          Yes and add another degree of difficulty and make it AL/NL only.

  2. Clint says:

    I personally like drafting mid to late in the draft order because it gives me more freedom to be at ease gambling a bit on a high second rounder if I should like him than it would be early in the order. Seeing this still makes me feel good to have won my first championship last season going away despite drafting Braun #1 overall and then getting Kemp in a gamble trade midseason.

    • Impressive u won with those anchors.

    • Spammer Jay says:

      @Clint: same exact happened to me last season. I drafted Braun #1 overall and kept Kemp as a keeper. Took 2nd place with help from my little sleeper friends Segura and Marte and Miller.

      • Montezuma's Revenge... right now says:

        @Spammer Jay: i won in a league i drafted Braun 4th, but traded him just as he was tailing off along with Rivera for Cutch and Wilhelmsen. Did fine due to big enough roster to stash enough closer ready guys (and it was only 10 teamer) to end up with 5 closers at end of the year (even after Wilhelmsen lost his job) in Koji/Kenley/Janssen/Hawkins/Farquar.

  3. Mike says:

    I have the 14th pick in H to H 14 team OPS Yahoo League. I like Fielder who is rated by Yahoo at 17 and I like E 5 for my third baseman. Would you go for a OF at 15 and who you take.

  4. Paz says:

    Would you do a pre-season keeper swap of Longoria for Encarnacion?

    • Jeff in Southern Indiana says:

      @Paz: Depends on E’s wrist to me.

  5. pasha says:

    definitely prefer to be near the turn. you don’t mind “reaching” for the players you actually want when if you’re being honest, you’re just selecting the team you’re happy with. Of course, I’m in the 7 slot this year…. ballz

    • Justin says:

      @pasha: who ya taking? Adam Jones? Cargo ? Harper.

  6. Mike says:

    I would make that trade for E 5

  7. RandomItalicizedVoice says:

    How do you feel about Porcello this year Rudy? Like him better than Wheeler? I’m having a hard time deciding about Porcello. The projection systems are pretty meh on him. And nobody (except Grey) is giving him any credit rankings wise. How feel you?

    • Mediocre pitcher. Filler for a 15 team league staff

  8. The Dude says:

    My keeper league uses a non-snake draft (i.e. if you’re 1st, you get to pick 1st in every round). We do this to help with league parity. But, because it’s a keeper, the draft doesn’t actually begin until the 9th round (8 keepers).

    What’s interesting is the first round (9th) still has a disproportionate value per pick relative to the other rounds, not only because the best players available are being drafted (as is assumed with any round) but because the players available in the first round may actually be 3-4 rounds more valuable than they are being drafted. This happens because some owners have to let top 50-80 players go back into the draft, while others are forced to keep players well outside of the top 100 (or choose to keep prospects like Taveras) because they have no other options.

    How big of an impact does not snaking have in addition to the advantage the early pickers already have with the snake format?

    • Not sure – maybe the top team at a 30% advantage vs bottom?

      • The Dude says:

        @Rudy Gamble: Thanks Rudy. It’s intended to be skewed, so it is what it is.

        I got Grey’s take already, but would love your opinion on my last keeper for this 12 team league:


        Last one is between these (listed in order of how I’m leaning):
        Greinke, Chapman, Josh Hamilton, WIlin Rosario

        I know (1st world problems right?), but still gotta make a choice. Greinke would be a no-brainer if I didn’t already have 2 top SP. Thanks!

        • Chapman or Rosario. Probably Chapman b/c I prefer to stream catchers and set-and-forget closers.

  9. Malarkey says:

    Shouldn’t we pair these values with the following pick made in the 2nd round. I mean I understand the drop-off in value between 1st and 12th pick, but at least in my case, I like to get a late round pick because I can likely get 2 borderline 1st round talents (say Cutch & E5 or Cargo & Prince), that if they pan out, can together bring greater returns than a solid 1st rounder like Miggy and a borderline 2nd/3rd rounder (like maybe Freddie Freeman) at the end of the 2nd round.

    Any thoughts?

    • Nimrod says:

      @Malarkey: I would like Rudy to take it one round further also. I think it would be interesting. I know as the draft gets deeper more parity sets in. Come on Rudy just do round 2 with your data.

      • @Nimrod: i can do 2nd round picks…just not 1st/2nd round combinations…

        • Nimrod says:

          @Rudy Gamble: Understand. The 2nd round data would still be worth evaluating.

    • @Malarkey: That’s way too many combinations – would need a much bigger data set than 64 leagues to make sense of it. Clearly there wasn’t a great way to ‘pair’ Braun or Kemp :)

      Last year was a weak year to draft at the turn. I feel like most years – including this one – that you can get two good players near the turn (i’ve seen Beltre/Braun in expert 15-league). Here’s the thing though – I’ve shown two different ways that drafting earlier is better – both modeled + actual performance. It’s not always a massive difference but it would be asinine in my opinion to ‘prefer’ a late 1st round pick than early 1st round pick based on this evidence (no offense – just stating the opinion forcefully so there’s no ambiguity)

  10. Jason says:

    In a keeper league would you rather hold Bailey, Moore, or Ryu? We do not count WHIP.

    • @Jason: No WHIP? If you don’t count walks, I’d go w/ Moore. Otherwise, Bailey.

  11. Northside Baez Club says:

    @Rudy: I agree it varies year by year. In our 12 team league, we draw names and the first person can pick their draft spot. The first three names picked all chose 1,2, 3. Then the fourth name chose 12. I was the fifth name so chose #8. This may seem weird, but I basically took a look at how many players I would be comfortable with in the first round. There were eight guys I liked… I wanted as late of pick in the first round so could grab a better second round pick. Even though I had a later third round pick, after doing several mocks, I liked the players in around that ADP. Of course, everything can change between now and the draft and really the differences are negligible between positions, but this is an interesting way to handle draft order.

    • Spammer Jay says:

      @Northside Baez Club: it’s all relative. Opting for a later pick just takes the pressure off. Earlier the better, just take the player you want regardless of the perceived ranks.

  12. joeg414 says:

    Please help. I have the 6th pick in a 13 Team Mixed Roto Keeper, we’re able to keep one hitter and one pitcher in the round where they were drafted last year (i’m keepeing Freeman-5th and Wainwright in the 4th). But, my question is about my 1st round 6th pick. If Trout, Cabrera,McCutchen,A.Jones,Cano, Kershaw, Goldschmidt ,Ellsbury ,C.Davis are all taken then who should i get?

    • joeg414 says:

      CarGo might be gone too.

  13. B.o.B says:

    What would be your strategy/ideal first few picks from the 9 spot in a 10 team Yahoo league with OBP instead of Avg?

    • Honestly I don’t know. I would look at my yahoo 12 team 5×5 OBP rankings and probably pick the 2 best available players I felt weren’t making it back for 3rd round. Would want to review adp to see which positions might net later round value (usually C/2B/SS/3B for me).

  14. What do you think of the Kentucky Derby style draft spot rule in the NFBC? Are we using that for the Razzball sponsored leagues?

    • Yup. I like it though haven’t studied it enough to know if there’s any advantage to picking anything but 1,2,3, etc

  15. Jurickselton Primmons says:

    Need help with an H2H keeper league, we keep 4. $300 budget, 6×6 W/ OPS & Holds

    Andrew McCutchen-$38
    Prince Fielder-$36
    Brandon Belt-$6
    Wil Myers-$5
    Jean Segura-$5
    Greg Holland-$2
    Gerrit Cole-$5
    Alex Cobb-$9
    Adam Wainwright-$27

    Thank you much, keep up the fantastic work

    • Myers, segura, cole and Cobb

  16. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    just checking to see if avatar successfully updated

  17. Simply Fred

    simply fred says:

    nope. avatar shows new image, but obviously i’m not correcting in the right spot. help?

  18. 2 Giant rings says:

    In past seasons there has been a Razzball rankings excel sheet. The only thing close to that right now is the ranking tiers. That’s too bulky to be used as a cheatsheet. Is there a small rank sheet in the works? Thanks much.

    • Can’t u just cut/paste the rankings into excel?

    • jake says:

      @2 Giant rings: the tiers are summarized well in the war room.I intend to use that as a main che as tsheet.

  19. Kirk says:

    The winner of my NFBC league last year picked 9th out of 15. He took Kershaw, Longoria, and Kimbrell. I am still trying to decide how to rank my choices for draft order this year.

  20. Justin says:

    Based on mocks I have done this year where I have drafted in different slots, I would rather draft 1,2,11,12. Trout and miggy are clear picks there, to much mess in the middle, and at 11/12 depending on how it works out you could get say a Jones/votto or Harper/fielder Jones Beltran right there and be so pumped. This if your drafting 6th your options are Cargo Harper Cano Davis etc. Those aren’t picks that your excited about. Your hesitant to make those. IMO

    • Justin says:

      @Justin: I meant Jones/Beltre not Beltran

    • Yes, I see what you are saying. But I’d be pretty happy with Goldy/Puig out of the 3rd pick or McCutchen/(EE or Freeman) out of the 4th pick

    • Nimrod says:

      @Justin: I’ve pretty much have done the Jones/Fielder-Votto combo for rounds 5 thru 10.

  21. jake says:

    Hi Rudy,

    Where are your rankings like Grey’s top 400? Is that what is found in the auction values?

    I’m in a 10 team (or maybe 9, an owner flaked out) auction league. 5×5, with ops instead of avg, qs instead of wins, and sv+hlds instead of saves. Few questions on how you’d flex the auction values:

    1.number of teams: Seems like I can just start with the 10 team values, add up the PS for players I think will be affected, divide by the total funds, and apply this $/ps to the point share estimates.
    2. For ops and qs, send like I can just adjust the 10 team PS by the difference (or ratio?) of your 12 team ps values for Qs/wins and ops/avg respectively.
    3. Fir s+hlds,seems like the most amount of should change the draft pool and the value of a save.any tips?

    Man,I love data! Keep up the great work.thanks!

    • Yes, I do not do a top 400 – my auction values are the closest thing. I then take this order and compare vs ADP to determine when I can take these players at best value (Puig can wait until 2nd).

      For your format, you’ll need to do a little work. I’d run the 7×7 format for pitching and 6×6 for hitting for ESPN or yahoo (whichever you are using for roster/pos elig). Add Saves and Holds together.

      Delete the stats u don’t want (wins) and re-add the stat $. Add $1 to that. Sort in descending order.

      I think that should so it.

  22. Jay says:

    Hey Rudy, interesting read.

    quick question, you mentioned you used ADPs. I remember Mock Draft Central used to have it where you could select which host site ADPs you wanted, but idon;t see that anymore. Any idea on where to get Yahoo ADPs? The best I can find right now is from what they post but they only post the top 50 players for each position and their ADP. Not ideal , but it works…a little.

  23. Mike says:

    Rudy –
    i have never been able to understand keeper strategy for league size. i have a league where owners pick 17 hitters (2 Utils and 2 at each position plus 5 of’s) and 10 pitchers plus 6 bench spots, thus 330 players selected. is it better to keep higher priced superstars (like Cano-Harper-Baumgartner) or cheaper priced prospects (like Bogaerts-Myers-G.Cole)?

    Also, I need 6 keepers from this list. We have $300 total to spend in a Sholds/OBA league…Goldschmidt $28, B.Harper $32, W.Myers $8, EE $20, Bogaerts $7, Pujols $13, Ffreeman $17, Cano $35, Scherzer $19, Baumgartner $27, and G.Cole-D.Salazar-S.Miller all $6.

    • Mike says:

      BTW – the categories are OBA-R-HR-RBI-SB and K-K/BB-WHIP-QS-Sholds.

  24. malamoney

    malamoney says:

    Ok, so I completely understand (and agree) with the philosophy of drafting hitters over pitchers in the early rounds. However, in our H2H points league the scoring is a bit skewed towards pitching.

    Our scoring system for pitching is:
    +10 points for a win
    -5 points for a loss
    +1 point for every out, strikeout and pickoff
    -1 for a walk, hit, earned run, hit batsment, balk and wild pitch
    +10 for save (-5 for a blown save)

    So in our league having some good starters is rather valuable.

    I am keeping Braun, Tulo, Goldschmidt, Longoria and King Felix. Pretty much all of the top starters are keepers. I actually have two first round picks and 2 second round picks. What do you think about using my two first rounders for pitchers and my two second rounders for hitters?

    • In H2H points, SP isn’t as discounted a draft time. And keepers always change the dynamics of a draft. I think drafting pitchers early make sense based on what you’ve stated.

  25. SteveNZ says:

    Hey Rudy – been a bit of chat in other posts that you have ranked managers’ drafts and in-season management in the RCLs from last year. Is that available for general consumption?

    • Kid A says:

      @SteveNZ: Am curious as well.

    • The insights will come out in two posts – first one on Tuesday (I think). I’ll then release the info on all the RCL managers

      • Kid A says:

        @Rudy Gamble: That is fantastic. Appreciate all the number-thinking stuff you do. Times like these that I imagine those afro-puffs on the side of your head as little black clouds of genius smoke.

  26. matt says:

    Good stuff Rudy, I always knew that after 3 or 4 it was a slight drop. I just don’t have time for a 5 hr auction x 8 leagues that’s crazy!

    • Wallpaper Paterson says:

      @matt: The eight leagues might be the issue. Stick to 0, 1, or 2 leagues like I am doing this year and the length of an auction will not be a problem.

  27. Hey Rudy – awesome stuff, as usual.

    So I got Grey’s input already but I’d like to double down if you’d be so kind –

    10-team ROTO, 10-keepers. 2-Catchers with MI+CI, 5 OF.

    It’s a non-snake draft, I finished 2nd, and traded away my 1st (Kemp) and 3rd (Hamels) rounders in the process, so I’m looking at only 2 picks in the first 50 at this point.

    I’m wondering who you’d take for the last keeper spot/who I should look to flip for picks.

    Here are my sure-fires:

    Kenley Jansen

    Who’d you take for the last keeper?
    Molina (2 catcher league + current pick situation make a difference?)

    Thanks a lot!

    • I would probably keep Hamels or A-Gonz and see whatever else u can flip. I think the preseason injury won’t cost him more than two weeks and he’s a top 12 pitcher IMO.

      • @Rudy Gamble: thanks for the reply. makes it tough though haha. would you suggest getting whatever picks I could for those I don’t keep then – say getting like a 5th rounder for Latos or something if people aren’t biting for earlier picks (like a first for A-Gon), etc?

        I still think Hamels is more than solid, too, but I do think he’ll slide far enough for me to possibly grab him again, while retaining someone else who can help me.

        thanks again Rudy!

  28. Jake says:

    Hi Rudy,

    Any thoughts on simulating a auction to help test ones auction values? ESPN has mock auctions, but there’s usually a couple half retarded kids that by 4 $50 players and then drop. Looking to do something more realistic.


    • I don’t trust any mock drafts except maybe if done by experts. I would check the action values against several other public sources to identify the subset of guys you can realistically get at or below your target.

  29. J-FOH says:

    Peeping in on your BAD draft, what are your thoughts on Hamels and Masterson, I like Masterson at the right price, I’m not a believer in second half Hamels last year. I think he starts his regression years….but on the other hand at the price you paid even his regression years might start at SP2 numbers

    • I like Hamels. Solid bet for 6+ Ks a start with good ERA/WHIP. I think he’s a top 15 pitcher if healthy. Masterson was great last year. Good K-rate, durable, and lots of weak GB. Coming at 75 pick discount based on NFBC ADP and my values

  30. SteveNZ says:

    Hey Rudy – Notice that J-Up is inside the top 10 for 12-team ESPN leagues (and for Yahoo 6×6 OBP leagues too) in your rankings this year. I assume you wouldn’t draft him 10th, but do believe in him this year?

    • I really like him in late 2nd round/early 3rd round. J-Up and Puig are two OFs that steamer really likes. Puig has made it to pick #22 in two expert drafts as has J-Up.

  31. LogicLiker says:

    Love these type of posts … frankly, it’s the only reason I visit this site. You can’t find info like this anywhere else. Thanks Rudy!

  32. E Dawg says:

    Im keeping Trout Bryce Miggy & Waino. I get to pick what slot I draft in a 10 team league. Still pick #4? Thanks!

    • Real hard to say. Who’s the best player on the board? If there’s a great one, take pick #1. If there is no consensus #1, take what makes you feel comfortable (which, for me, would be #5).

  33. Eric says:

    Price, Stanton, Cliff Lee, Jose Fernandez, Joey Bats, Kipnis, Choo, & Mad Bum are best available right now atm

    • @Eric: i like those hitters. with waino, no need for an SP. i’d take #4 or so and aim for Choo. seems like he’d be a nice balance to your group. but stanton, bautista, or kipnis would be just fine.

  34. Eric says:

    Hey Rudy. Sorry change of plans…apparently were sticking w/ the orig format so i dont get to choose what draft slot after all. I pick #1 overall. Who would you pick? I’m thinking either Joey Bats, Price, or Mad Bum. Thoughts?

    • @Eric: Stanton or Joey Bats. I like Stanton a bit more.

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