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Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:41 am
by Frank Rizzo
I asked a guy about a small trade for Duscherer because I could use some steadiness on my staff. He said he'd do a 1 for 1 Duscherer for Victorino or consider combo offers. He's not too happy with what he's gotten out of Alex Rios and obviously believes Victorino is an upgrade.

Now, I love having Victorino on my team and won't do that 1 for 1. Victorino has saved my butt since Granderson has been slumping so bad since his hot start. I would like Duscherer though and would consider sending this counter offer...

I send Victorino and Owings

I get Rios and Duscherer

I'm losing patience with Owings who has gotten blown up in his last 3 starts meanwhile Duscherer has been pretty even keel since the beginning. And Rios does not have the MVP's surrounding him in the order that Victorino does but he was a more highly touted OF at the beginning of the season.

What say you?

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:40 am
by Grey
Frank Rizzo wrote:I send Victorino and Owings

I get Rios and Duscherer



I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Yup. Git R Done.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:49 am
by Frank Rizzo
Grey wrote:
Frank Rizzo wrote:I send Victorino and Owings

I get Rios and Duscherer



I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Yup. Git R Done.


Wow. That cut and dry huh? Why is it such a no brainer? You've been talking about how Owings is a hold due to his K/BB rate and Victorino bats in between 3 MVP's. Do you like Rios that much?

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:03 am
by Grey
Yeah, I like Rios better than Victorino. Will hit more home runs, a few less steals, comparable runs, more RBIs and is less injury prone. Also, with Vernon back, it can only help Rios going forward.

Owings and Dook-sheer is close. Dook-sheer has shown that the move to starting isn't hurting his ability to pitch. He is a bit of an injury risk, but these two pitchers are close to a push.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:05 am
by peter
Frank Rizzo wrote:
Grey wrote:
Frank Rizzo wrote:I send Victorino and Owings

I get Rios and Duscherer



I would do this trade in a heartbeat. Yup. Git R Done.


Wow. That cut and dry huh? Why is it such a no brainer? You've been talking about how Owings is a hold due to his K/BB rate and Victorino bats in between 3 MVP's. Do you like Rios that much?


Yeah, I'm w/ Grey. Good trade for you. Owings has solid peripherals - very few walks, throws lots of strikes. Unfortunately, a lot of those strikes become hits - thus an ERA of 4.00. I have him in a league and tried to move him when his ERA was still in the 3s. Duscherer is an upgrade and will have a much lower ERA/WHIP. Rios may be starting to turn it around, too. His end of the year stats will likely be below what everyone thought/hoped, but look at the numbers next to a Disappointing Rios vs. Hot Hawaiian:

Rios: .272 avg, 3 HR, 25 RBI, 36 R, 15 SB
Victorino: .291 avg, 2 HR, 17 RBI, 41 R, 13 SB

Full disclosure: Rios has played in 13 more games this year. But I still see comparable numbers, with Rios only getting better. I think you win both sides of this trade.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:13 am
by Frank Rizzo
peter wrote:Yeah, I'm w/ Grey. Good trade for you. Owings has solid peripherals - very few walks, throws lots of strikes. Unfortunately, a lot of those strikes become hits - thus an ERA of 4.00. I have him in a league and tried to move him when his ERA was still in the 3s. Duscherer is an upgrade and will have a much lower ERA/WHIP. Rios may be starting to turn it around, too. His end of the year stats will likely be below what everyone thought/hoped, but look at the numbers next to a Disappointing Rios vs. Hot Hawaiian:

Rios: .272 avg, 3 HR, 25 RBI, 36 R, 15 SB
Victorino: .291 avg, 2 HR, 17 RBI, 41 R, 13 SB

Full disclosure: Rios has played in 13 more games this year. But I still see comparable numbers, with Rios only getting better. I think you win both sides of this trade.


I feel more warm and fuzzy with Duscherer than I do Owings that is true, but full disclosure does tell the tale so far this year. Victorino has done more in a shorter period of time. He is currently the more valuable of the 2.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:19 am
by Grey
Victorino is definitely the better player up until this point, but I still want Rios going forward.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:31 am
by crusaderr
i say do it. Victorino<Rios

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:35 am
by peter
Frank Rizzo wrote:I feel more warm and fuzzy with Duscherer than I do Owings that is true, but full disclosure does tell the tale so far this year. Victorino has done more in a shorter period of time. He is currently the more valuable of the 2.


It's not that much shorter a period - just 13 games. And Rios' pace is only going to improve - I don't see the same happening w/ Victorino. I like Victorino mucho, but I like Rios mas for the rest of the season.

Re: Is this just impatience?

Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:48 am
by Frank Rizzo
Well crap. Looks like I won't be able to make it happen because he doesn't want to offer Rios.

He wants to send me Fukodome/Duscherer for Victorino/Owings

I don't like this at all. Victorino fits well for what I need with Granderson in CF and Abreu in RF, plus McLouth eligible for all fields. Victorino could be used as a fill in or starter very nice at those positions. With Fukodome I'd be giving up the CF eligibility, would lose on SB's, gain on RBI, and be similar otherwise. Rios offered me CF/RF eligibility which I liked a lot.

Should I play hardball and press for Rios or nothing?