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	<title>Comments on: The Fantasy Baseball Hall of Fame, First Basemen</title>
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	<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/</link>
	<description>Razzball is a fantasy baseball blog dedicated to providing usable strategy, advice and tips for winning your fantasy baseball league.</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:06:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4644</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 13:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4644</guid>
		<description>@ Endless Summer

Olerud was a very good baseball player for a while, and a very good Fantasy Baseball player for 2 years, but you are right - too much of his value is locked up on doubles.  

1993 he was great - 10.9 FBHOF pts, 4th best 1B, 15th best batter
1998:  .354 AVG, 91 R, 22 HR, 93 RBI, 2 SB - 7.8 pts, 6th best 1b, 40th best batter
2002:  .300 AVG, 85 R, 22 HR, 102 RBI, 0 SB - 5.5 Pts, 12th best 1b, 67th best batter
1999:  .298 AVG, 107 R, 19 HR, 96 RBI, 3 SB - 5.3 Pts, 14th best 1b, 78th best batter
1997:  .294 AVG, 90 R, 22 HR, 102 RBI, 0 SB - 5.1 Pts, 13th best 1b, 74th best batter

He was up against McGwire, Galarraga, Bagwell, F Thomas, Helton, Giambi, Palmeiro, Thome, Delgado, etc.  Some good fantasy players who racked up the counting stats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Endless Summer</p>
<p>Olerud was a very good baseball player for a while, and a very good Fantasy Baseball player for 2 years, but you are right - too much of his value is locked up on doubles.  </p>
<p>1993 he was great - 10.9 FBHOF pts, 4th best 1B, 15th best batter<br />
1998:  .354 AVG, 91 R, 22 HR, 93 RBI, 2 SB - 7.8 pts, 6th best 1b, 40th best batter<br />
2002:  .300 AVG, 85 R, 22 HR, 102 RBI, 0 SB - 5.5 Pts, 12th best 1b, 67th best batter<br />
1999:  .298 AVG, 107 R, 19 HR, 96 RBI, 3 SB - 5.3 Pts, 14th best 1b, 78th best batter<br />
1997:  .294 AVG, 90 R, 22 HR, 102 RBI, 0 SB - 5.1 Pts, 13th best 1b, 74th best batter</p>
<p>He was up against McGwire, Galarraga, Bagwell, F Thomas, Helton, Giambi, Palmeiro, Thome, Delgado, etc.  Some good fantasy players who racked up the counting stats.</p>
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		<title>By: Endless Summer</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4621</link>
		<dc:creator>Endless Summer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 04:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4621</guid>
		<description>John Olerud had a couple of great years in 1993 and 1998, and probably just pretty good outside of that.  I'm just curious to see if he fits somewhere on this list, or do I just overrate him hitting for average and a ton of doubles (read: not many homers for fantasy), that didn't drive in a lot of people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John Olerud had a couple of great years in 1993 and 1998, and probably just pretty good outside of that.  I&#8217;m just curious to see if he fits somewhere on this list, or do I just overrate him hitting for average and a ton of doubles (read: not many homers for fantasy), that didn&#8217;t drive in a lot of people?</p>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4620</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 03:16:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4620</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-4601" rel="nofollow"&gt;Lou&lt;/a&gt;: Well said, Lou. And you're right, I can't argue with it. I followed Reggie to the Angels then the A's and I skipped having a Mattingly idol. (Get it, it's kinda like Matinee). When Reggie retired, I latched onto McGwire and followed him all the way to his awkward hugs with Sosa. I just couldn't stand to have McGwire called out for having no speed when Mattingly was definitely no Bourn runsmith. I think the comparing different eras thing is really the tricky part, but I do think you're handling it surprisingly well. Keep on, keepin' on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-4601">Lou</a>: Well said, Lou. And you&#8217;re right, I can&#8217;t argue with it. I followed Reggie to the Angels then the A&#8217;s and I skipped having a Mattingly idol. (Get it, it&#8217;s kinda like Matinee). When Reggie retired, I latched onto McGwire and followed him all the way to his awkward hugs with Sosa. I just couldn&#8217;t stand to have McGwire called out for having no speed when Mattingly was definitely no Bourn runsmith. I think the comparing different eras thing is really the tricky part, but I do think you&#8217;re handling it surprisingly well. Keep on, keepin&#8217; on!</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4604</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4604</guid>
		<description>@razzmanian devil

Teix has a LONG way to go.  Using the 10 pt FBHOF score as a gauge, Teix has only 1 FBHOF worthy season - 2005 (.301, 113 R, 43 HR, 144 RBI, 4 SB, 13.2 Pts).

The rest of his seasons really aren't anything special for first basemen or any power hitter.  An average of 88 R, 32 HR, 102 R, 2 SB really isn't that special by today's standards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@razzmanian devil</p>
<p>Teix has a LONG way to go.  Using the 10 pt FBHOF score as a gauge, Teix has only 1 FBHOF worthy season - 2005 (.301, 113 R, 43 HR, 144 RBI, 4 SB, 13.2 Pts).</p>
<p>The rest of his seasons really aren&#8217;t anything special for first basemen or any power hitter.  An average of 88 R, 32 HR, 102 R, 2 SB really isn&#8217;t that special by today&#8217;s standards.</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4601</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4601</guid>
		<description>@ Grey
I give you Reggie - he would almost definitely be in if I counted the 70s, but I haven't yet, so he is on the fence looking in.  Consider him like the oft maligned negro-leaguer's, which means I am sure he and his 1970s brethren will be over-inducted in the years to come.

OK - for Donnie Baseball and the Creatine Kid.  First, remember that the 5 year peak makes up 95+% of a players peak.  Second, lets look at their rankings by year.  Here are their rankings among first basemen during the 5-year peaks:

Mattingly:  1, 1, 2, 3, 3 - Average = 2.0
McGwire:  1, 2, 3, 4, 6 - Average = 3.0

among all batters

Mattingly:  1, 2, 5, 14, 18 - Average = 8.0
McGwire:  4, 12, 12, 24, 30 - Average = 16.4

So, first point is that Mattingly was ranked significantly better over his 5 year peak.

This is all well and good if you buy into the methodology I use.  Maybe you don't, and if that is the case, who cares how my rankings come out, right?

So - a bit on the methodology.  Again looking at peak years, here are the underlying point totals for each category.  Tough to display in comments, so, the first number is Mattingly's the second is McGwire's in each case

AVG:  20.8 vs. 5.4
R:  13.9 vs. 13.8
HR:  12.4 vs. 22.5
RBI:  17.8 vs. 15.9
SB:  -1.2 vs. -2.1

Really, it comes down to the fact that 

A) Mattingly was an incredible average hitter, while McGwire was actually not that good.

B) McGwire was a much superior home run hitter, but it is not as if Mattingly was a stiff with the long ball.

C) And RBI wise, they were about the same, but Mattingly's peak average of 119 is a bit more impressive than McGwire's average of 125 when considering the era.

The final proof - forget the math, look at the raw numbers.  Holding stolen bases aside because I am lazy and they are about equal (it hurts Mattingly a bit anyways), here is the average rank that each finished in all stat categories.  Meaning, in 1984 Mattingly finished 2nd in Batting Average and 6th in RBI.  Add these rankings up for each stat in the peak years and it's a BLOWOUT.

Mattingly's average rank in 12.2.  McGwire's is 24.7!  Crap man, that is a huge difference.  And it is no back-office mumbo jumbo with standard deviations and calculated league minimums, it is straight ranking among their peers of the time.  Just to remove all doubt, here is their average ranking in each category.  Again, Mattingly's first, followed by McGwire's:

AVG:  6th vs. 67th
R:  22nd vs. 20th
HR:  16th vs. 1st
RBI:  5th vs 10th

Not sure how anyone can argue with this now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Grey<br />
I give you Reggie - he would almost definitely be in if I counted the 70s, but I haven&#8217;t yet, so he is on the fence looking in.  Consider him like the oft maligned negro-leaguer&#8217;s, which means I am sure he and his 1970s brethren will be over-inducted in the years to come.</p>
<p>OK - for Donnie Baseball and the Creatine Kid.  First, remember that the 5 year peak makes up 95+% of a players peak.  Second, lets look at their rankings by year.  Here are their rankings among first basemen during the 5-year peaks:</p>
<p>Mattingly:  1, 1, 2, 3, 3 - Average = 2.0<br />
McGwire:  1, 2, 3, 4, 6 - Average = 3.0</p>
<p>among all batters</p>
<p>Mattingly:  1, 2, 5, 14, 18 - Average = 8.0<br />
McGwire:  4, 12, 12, 24, 30 - Average = 16.4</p>
<p>So, first point is that Mattingly was ranked significantly better over his 5 year peak.</p>
<p>This is all well and good if you buy into the methodology I use.  Maybe you don&#8217;t, and if that is the case, who cares how my rankings come out, right?</p>
<p>So - a bit on the methodology.  Again looking at peak years, here are the underlying point totals for each category.  Tough to display in comments, so, the first number is Mattingly&#8217;s the second is McGwire&#8217;s in each case</p>
<p>AVG:  20.8 vs. 5.4<br />
R:  13.9 vs. 13.8<br />
HR:  12.4 vs. 22.5<br />
RBI:  17.8 vs. 15.9<br />
SB:  -1.2 vs. -2.1</p>
<p>Really, it comes down to the fact that </p>
<p>A) Mattingly was an incredible average hitter, while McGwire was actually not that good.</p>
<p>B) McGwire was a much superior home run hitter, but it is not as if Mattingly was a stiff with the long ball.</p>
<p>C) And RBI wise, they were about the same, but Mattingly&#8217;s peak average of 119 is a bit more impressive than McGwire&#8217;s average of 125 when considering the era.</p>
<p>The final proof - forget the math, look at the raw numbers.  Holding stolen bases aside because I am lazy and they are about equal (it hurts Mattingly a bit anyways), here is the average rank that each finished in all stat categories.  Meaning, in 1984 Mattingly finished 2nd in Batting Average and 6th in RBI.  Add these rankings up for each stat in the peak years and it&#8217;s a BLOWOUT.</p>
<p>Mattingly&#8217;s average rank in 12.2.  McGwire&#8217;s is 24.7!  Crap man, that is a huge difference.  And it is no back-office mumbo jumbo with standard deviations and calculated league minimums, it is straight ranking among their peers of the time.  Just to remove all doubt, here is their average ranking in each category.  Again, Mattingly&#8217;s first, followed by McGwire&#8217;s:</p>
<p>AVG:  6th vs. 67th<br />
R:  22nd vs. 20th<br />
HR:  16th vs. 1st<br />
RBI:  5th vs 10th</p>
<p>Not sure how anyone can argue with this now.</p>
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		<title>By: Grey</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4598</link>
		<dc:creator>Grey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4598</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-4596" rel="nofollow"&gt;RAINMAN&lt;/a&gt;: Maine, Vazquez, Verlander, Harden, Cabrera (assuming Melky), in that order. *****Also, follow-up questions regarding anything but FBHOF, kindly go to my roundup post. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-4596">RAINMAN</a>: Maine, Vazquez, Verlander, Harden, Cabrera (assuming Melky), in that order. *****Also, follow-up questions regarding anything but FBHOF, kindly go to my roundup post. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: RAINMAN</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4596</link>
		<dc:creator>RAINMAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 01:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4596</guid>
		<description>mcgwire - yuck

Want to move Kershaw while his stock is high.  Playing for this year, who would you rather have:  Kershaw or potential targets Javy Vazquez Maine Cabrera Verlander Harden? h2h 5x5 thx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mcgwire - yuck</p>
<p>Want to move Kershaw while his stock is high.  Playing for this year, who would you rather have:  Kershaw or potential targets Javy Vazquez Maine Cabrera Verlander Harden? h2h 5&#215;5 thx</p>
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		<title>By: Lou</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4590</link>
		<dc:creator>Lou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 23:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4590</guid>
		<description>Well, I will spend some time on this a bit later tonight, but there is no way McGwire's best years were better than Mattingly's.  Mattingly was better in all but HR, when considering the years he played.  I will show this, but don't have time at this exact moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I will spend some time on this a bit later tonight, but there is no way McGwire&#8217;s best years were better than Mattingly&#8217;s.  Mattingly was better in all but HR, when considering the years he played.  I will show this, but don&#8217;t have time at this exact moment.</p>
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		<title>By: Chase</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4587</link>
		<dc:creator>Chase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 23:06:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4587</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-4533" rel="nofollow"&gt;razzmanian devil&lt;/a&gt;: You answered it yourself...in a few years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-4533" rel="nofollow">razzmanian devil</a>: You answered it yourself&#8230;in a few years.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/the-best-first-basemen-ever/#comment-4568</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 20:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=363#comment-4568</guid>
		<description>@&lt;a href="#comment-4532" rel="nofollow"&gt;Grey&lt;/a&gt;: Funny that you hate on Mattingly since you sport the same moustache.  Then again, we can't see your back in the photo - perhaps you sport the same backne as McGwire.  Mattingly at his best was better than McGwire at everything except HR.  Those AVG points go a long way....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="#comment-4532">Grey</a>: Funny that you hate on Mattingly since you sport the same moustache.  Then again, we can&#8217;t see your back in the photo - perhaps you sport the same backne as McGwire.  Mattingly at his best was better than McGwire at everything except HR.  Those AVG points go a long way&#8230;.</p>
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