The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Steals/Saves Ain't Got No Face. Closers and speed talk. Which MRs are moving in? Which schmohawk speedster is getting steals at MI?
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mdgross50
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The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby mdgross50 » Sun May 13, 2012 7:12 am

The likes of Aceves, H. Santiago, F. Coredero, B. Lidge, and even A. Cashner have destroyed my ERA and WHIP categories. The teams that are dominating paid for saves and are selling them at fairly high prices (like Uggla for Papelbon).

I think the Closerpocalypse is just a sign that one can't afford to disregard those slots that can get you this one category. Call it a correction in the market, but a lesson for future seasons.

Has anyone ever experienced success punting both ERA and WHIP? The distance between me and the next placed guys is too huge to be believed.
Last edited by mdgross50 on Sun May 13, 2012 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
12 Team Roto Standard 5x5 (always)

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ManOrMachine?
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby ManOrMachine? » Sun May 13, 2012 8:03 am

I don't think you can win a 5x5 roto punting two categories. If your league has a high or no innings cap, just keep piling on quality starting pitching. Relievers throw very few innings compared to startersd, and even in a blowup will only give up a few runs, so enough good SP innings can make up for it.

If anything, this year proves you don't pay for saves (Bell, Marmol, Wilson, Mariano, Madson, etc. vs. Myers, Johnson, Perez, Rodriguez, Casilla, etc.)
Daily H2H 10x10 Each Dynasty 10 Team Yahoo

Budget: $260

Batting Categories: R HR RBI SB K BB TB AVG OBP SLG

C Martin $2
1B Goldschmidt $16
2B Wong $3
3B C. Davis. $16
SS Castro $16
LF Marte $1
CF Jones $65
RF Harrison $1
Util A Gon $6

Castillo $3
Ozuna. $1

DL Pence $2
DL Beltre. $31

Pitching Categories: IP W SV HR K ERA WHIP K/9 H/9 BB/9

SP1 Bumgarner $18
SP2 Shields $16
SP3 Cueto $11
SP4 Fister $10
SP5 Smyly $4
SP6 Hughes $1
SP7 Ventura $1 DL
SP8 Lackey $1
SP9 Rubby $1
SP10 Hammel $1
Wilson
Morton

RP1 Axford $2
RP2 Soria $2
RP3 Grilli $1

DL Wainright $20
DL Smyly. $4


Minor Roster: Jameson Taillon, Andrew Heaney, Jung Ho Kang, Kyle Schwarer, JP Crawford

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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby logan81901 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:17 am

What this proves is that you can never predict closers. You can get saves from anywhere all year long.
16 team roto keeper league
R, HR, RBI, SB, AVG, OBP, W, K, S, HLD, ERA, WHIP
16 players must be kept each year
Keep as long as you want
1500 inning limit
162 games per position

C- Wilson Ramos
1st- Freddie Freeman
2nd- Gyorko
3rd- Miggy
SS- E Cabrera
INF- Chris Davis
LF- Brett Gardner
CF- Andrew McCutchen
RF-
OF-
UT-A Beltre

SP- Matt Cain
SP- Madison Bumgarner
SP- Julio Teheran
RP- Grant Balfour
RP- Sergio Romo
RP-
P- Shelby Miller
P-
P-
BN- Miguel Sano
BN-
BN-
BN-
BN-
BN-

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mdgross50
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby mdgross50 » Sun May 13, 2012 8:30 am

It proves that reliable closers are more scarce, and hence more valuable. Grabbing guys off waivers is what lead to the mess that is my ERA and WHIP. Doesn't mean that I won't continue to comb the wire, but getting a nice closer to anchor my pen will be a factor during my next draft.

Mariano Rivera was a freak accident and does not factor into my thinking at all.
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Grey
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby Grey » Sun May 13, 2012 10:09 am

Top closers are Rodney and Myers, no one paid for those...
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If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
Is your league H2H? Roto?
I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
If you only have one team, post your team in your signature with the league parameters.
I don't know every single matchup for next week, so if you want me to choose a player for the following week and you think the matchups are important, tell me who they're facing.

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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby connman » Sun May 13, 2012 10:40 am

You can't pay because you can't predict. All but one or two closer buyers are really regretting that they did pay. Right now my team has kenley jensen, and casilla closing for it and andrew bailey on my DL and I got all three off waivers. The only closer I paid for was Nathan and I paid 5 for him. There are at least three owners in my league alone that paid over ten bucks each for a closer who lost their spot to a guy I now have and got for free.
16 team mixed league redraft league

SLG and OBP + runs, hr, Rbi, sb,

Wins, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, QS.

We use RF, LF, CF instead of just OF also.

Hitting:

C: Carlos Santana
1B: Jose Abreu
2B: Kolton Wong
SS: Andrelton Simmons
3B: Manny Machado
MI: Neil Walker
CI: Jimmy Paredes
RF: Ben Zobrist
CF: Lorenzo Cain
LF: Starling Marte
OF: Jay Bruce
Util: Jonathan Lucroy
Bench: Odebal Herrera
Bench: Mikel Franco
Bench: Javi Baez
DL: Lamb

Pitching:
SP: Jeff Samardzija
SP: Gerrit Cole
SP: Tyson Ross
RP: Zach Britton
RP: Brad Ziegler
P: Garrett Richards
P: Jason Hammel
P: Brett Anderson
BN: Sergio Romo
BN: James Nelson


DL: Beachy

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mdgross50
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby mdgross50 » Sun May 13, 2012 11:51 am

Now let's not cherry pick the closers that are ranked best at this moment, Grey. The first set of closers off the board in my league were Kimbrel, Papelbon, Rivera, and Axford. Those guys are gold (minus the freak injury to Mo that could happen at any position) right now. The point is that you are paying for 4 categories when you draft a closer earlier than your competitors with 1 an absolute necessity. Steals are cheap, yes, but saves probably need to be treated differently in this year and perhaps in general.
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Grey
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby Grey » Sun May 13, 2012 12:08 pm

Axford has a 6+ ERA and 2+ WHIP... And you could have not drafted any saves in a draft and have 5 closers right now... If anything, this season proves don't pay for saves stronger than past seasons...
Grey Albright
http://razzball.com
Image

If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
Is your league H2H? Roto?
I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
If you only have one team, post your team in your signature with the league parameters.
I don't know every single matchup for next week, so if you want me to choose a player for the following week and you think the matchups are important, tell me who they're facing.

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mdgross50
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby mdgross50 » Sun May 13, 2012 12:21 pm

I guess it depends on league to some extent. I don't know of anyone that would try to draft 5 closers in my setup, but 1-2 rock solid guys? Count me in. The weight these middling guys have for destroying ERA and WHIP is ginormous.

And unless Axford's job is in jeopardy, I'd gladly pay for him. These blown saves because of some newborn baby wouldn't dissuade me from nabbing him.
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mdgross50
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Re: The season where "don't pay for saves" is debunked

Postby mdgross50 » Sun May 13, 2012 12:28 pm

I just put my money where my mouth is and offered J. Garcia for Axford.

And one last thought: I did exactly what I was supposed to this year in not paying for saves. It has absolutely destroyed 2 categories that some say that I couldn't possibly punt.
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