Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

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GopherDay
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Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby GopherDay » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:34 pm

This is our league's first year as a keeper league where you keep a player 2 rounds ahead of where they were drafted the year before, where pick ups are assigned a last round pick.

Its a ROTO league, and the discussion came up about how to keep people at the bottom of the standings from dropping players they don't plan on keeping for prospects for next year.

For example, say Erick Young Jr was on the FA list, and the team in last place doesn't plan on keeping Brandon Phillips, so he drops him for EYJ. Not fair for the league. Any ways to limit this or prevent it? I need suggestions.

I'm asking everyone, not just Grey (Though if you do have any options I am more than welcome)...

Thanks!!
Gopher 8-)
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Grey
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby Grey » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:37 pm

GopherDay wrote:This is our league's first year as a keeper league where you keep a player 2 rounds ahead of where they were drafted the year before, where pick ups are assigned a last round pick.

Its a ROTO league, and the discussion came up about how to keep people at the bottom of the standings from dropping players they don't plan on keeping for prospects for next year.

For example, say Erick Young Jr was on the FA list, and the team in last place doesn't plan on keeping Brandon Phillips, so he drops him for EYJ. Not fair for the league. Any ways to limit this or prevent it? I need suggestions.

I'm asking everyone, not just Grey (Though if you do have any options I am more than welcome)...

Thanks!!
Gopher 8-)


Why would someone drop a player that could help another team? Makes no sense.
Grey Albright
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If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
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I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby shitbird » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:04 pm

I'm in a very similar leauge but we only get three moves per year so it's not much of an issue.
To deal with part of the problem, any player who is drafted is available the following year at their draft position -2 rounds regardless of what team they end up on and regardless of how they were acquired. For example, I draft Joe Nathan in the 8th then drop him because he is mortally wounded. Someone else picks him up because they want to keep him - he costs a 6th rd choice, not a last rounder.

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GopherDay
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby GopherDay » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:02 pm

Grey wrote:Why would someone drop a player that could help another team? Makes no sense.

The way the league is set up, you can keep players 2 rounds ahead of where they were drafted. So say I drafted Ryan Zimmerman in the 4th round, he would cost me a 2nd round pick next year. Johan in the 5th this year would cost me a 3rd round pick next year if I kept him.

The problem that came up was the possibility of the last place team dropping valuable players that they don't plan on keeping for prospects etc. So say they drafted Reyes in the 3rd round, and they didn't plan on keeping him, they dropped him for some dude that will cost him a last round draft pick. Then whoever is in the running could go ahead and pick up Reyes.

Does that make sense?
shitbird wrote:I'm in a very similar leauge but we only get three moves per year so it's not much of an issue.
To deal with part of the problem, any player who is drafted is available the following year at their draft position -2 rounds regardless of what team they end up on and regardless of how they were acquired. For example, I draft Joe Nathan in the 8th then drop him because he is mortally wounded. Someone else picks him up because they want to keep him - he costs a 6th rd choice, not a last rounder.

3 moves a year?? Haha I don't think I could deal with that! I like making small moves with my roster...19 moves already in one league!!

We have that exact same set up....except our draft was AFTER the Nathan news....... :x I guess it helps to some degree.
Because Gophers don't have a day...

amscalone
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby amscalone » Fri Apr 02, 2010 3:45 pm

assign a higher round value to free agents. In our league, all free agent pick ups cost a 13th round pick if we want to keep them, which was a completely arbitrary number we agreed on. There shouldn't be anyone on waivers at the end of the season that would be a very good value in the 13th, but you could make it even higher, maybe an 8th or 9th?
10 team 10x10 H2H keep 7, 5 add/drops per week limit
(hitting: r,bb,1b,2b,3b,hr,rbi,sb,k,.avg | pitching: ip,w,l,cg,bb,k,hra,era,whip,sv) Reggie Robying saves, as always

C: Wieters
1b: Cabrera
2b: Phillips
3b: Longoria
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OF: CarGo
OF: J Upton
OF: Lind (1b,of)
OF: Stubbs
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havok
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby havok » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:49 pm

None of this really seems to be getting at what I am interpreting as the heart of the issue.

Say Team A has Jose Reyes as a 5th round pick (3rd round keeper status) but is in last place with two months to go in the season. They see a prospect like Eric Young Jr. sitting in the FA pool and need a roster spot in order to sign him. Jose Reyes holds no value to Team A since they are in last place with no intentions of keeping Reyes. So they go along their way and cut Reyes to sign Young and better their team for the future - with no regard for the present since they are not in contention.

What rules should be put into place to stop Team A from dropping Reyes, thus allowing a contending team the opportunity to scoop him up off the waiver wire free of charge and gain a pretty unfair advantage over his competitors?

This question has raised an eyebrow for me as a commissioner of a keeper league. We have some rules in place setup to ensure that all players drafted before the 20th round hold their keeper status regardless of being dropped but that doesn't really solve the issue either.

I'll let you know if I think of anything... thanks!
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Big League Chew
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby Big League Chew » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Hmmm. I don't really have this problem in my keeper league, but I understand your concern. To be honest, I don't think that you are going to have as big of a problem as you think. Most teams that fall out of contention just quit checking their team. I don't like the moves limit (never have), and I don't really know of a way to fix it. Waiver priority makes a huge difference. I know that I wouldn't want to help another team win, but if I knew of a guy that I could pick up off FA and keep him for cheap, then I'll drop someone who wouldn't make that big of a deal not Reyes. That would be collusion. There's no reason to drop Reyes when I can drop a guy like B. Molina or Tim Hudson. In order to make room for keepers for the next season doesn't mean that you have to drop your best 4 players. That's crazy. I say don't really worry about it. You'll be okay. I understand both sides. If you are in contention then save that waiver. Good luck.

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Grey
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby Grey » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:54 pm

Reyes should then be a free round player if he's scooped off of waivers. So then a team would never drop Reyes if they knew they were making another team insanely strong with Reyes for next year.
Grey Albright
http://razzball.com
Image

If you want me to look at your team, post the team. Don't post a link to another site where the team is.
Have you given me all the info I need to judge your team? The number of teams in the league is a good start for the big overall questions.
Is your league H2H? Roto?
I don't know who's on your waivers. Don't just ask me who you should pick up. Give me names to choose from.
If you only have one team, post your team in your signature with the league parameters.
I don't know every single matchup for next week, so if you want me to choose a player for the following week and you think the matchups are important, tell me who they're facing.

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havok
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Re: Suggestions to keep teams from "Sandbagging" in a keeper??

Postby havok » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:24 pm

We have a rule that prevents a player dropped after the trade deadline from being kept to protect against some of this but I still don't think it solves the issue fully. Certainly using common sense an owner would not drop a player like Reyes outright if he has better options and/or to protect league integrity but without a bylaw outlining this I would still fear it can and may happen.

The main issue here is not about necessarily keeping this star player in future years, it's more about having a contending team having a free pass at a quality player just because a non-contending team has no interest in filling a roster spot with a theoretically non-keepable player. What if I am in last place and just want to stockpile young talent just for the sake of keeping guys away from my opponents? I'd want to use every roster spot available.

We have a limit on adds (additional league fees added if you choose to go over) to semi-prevent an owner from dropping his entire team but this still leaves the loophole above if a non-contending owner has free moves left.

I can't think of a proper way to prevent this without using some type of "undroppable" player list.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always
so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."

"The worst thing that can happen to a gambler is to win."

"When you bet on a dog only three things can happen; two of them are good."

Follow all my tweeting nonsense @TheRealestDan


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