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 Post subject: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:16 pm 
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For 2013 would you take this at C?
88/32/77/2/.247
In 2012 Posey returned:
78/24/103/1/.336
Grey is projecting the following for his #6 C V.Martinez (9th-10th RD?):
82/15/105/.307
Would you give up the extra 10 R and 8 HR gained from streaming for 26 fewer RBI and the AVG loss relative to Posey? Is there even a net gain at all, much less worthy of spending a top draft pick?
Please, Just The Facts M’am: In 2012 I drafted Napoli in the 4th, ‘convinced’ that as a 1B/DH and free of catching aches and pains he would have the ‘ultimate year’(even though Grey had counseled ‘Nah.’) On July 5 I streamed my first C, trading Naps on July 28. In the 98 baseball days (BBD) through July 5, 70 GP, Naps returned:
37/12/30/0/.236
From July 5, 86 BBD, I streamed 14 C. In 79 GP they returned:
41/15/36/1/.247
Napoli returned 70 GP in 98 available BBD.
Streaming returned: 79 GP in 86 BBD.
So, in 12 fewer baseball days, streaming C produced more than a 4th rd drafted C.
Ba..Ba..bad to the Bone Baseball Days: WAIT, 98 plus 86 equals 184. Aren’t players limited to 162 GP? Well, yes, and guess what?…baseball is played every day (‘cept the ASB)--184 total baseball days in 2012. When a drafted C is riding the bench, another C is playing.
The very best C in all of baseball, Posey, in 148 GP (pretty high for a C) returned:
78/24/103/1/.336
Pretty sure if you owned him you wouldn’t have been subbing in another C…?
If we just prorate my streamers in 79 GP to the 148 GP of Posey:
77/28/67/2/.247
However, if we prorate from our 79 GP in 86 BBD to 184 available BBD we get 169 GP and:
88/32/77/2/.247
This is what you can REASONABLY project for 2013 based upon ACTUAL streaming RESULTS from 2012.
If we filled every available BBD in the C slot, … you can do the math…
Cust Kayin’


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:10 pm 
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I like your thinking. I'm always looking for a strategy edge. I have used some platooning to good effect, but it's tough to tie up a roster spot and it doesn't always pay enough dividend to justify the use of an extra slot. But streaming a catcher doesn't use up an extra spot.

Couple possible drawbacks I can see. One, you are going to get dogshit for your average. The bottom tier catchers really, really can't hit. Course if you've punted catcher, you're getting that anyway most likely. Second thing is, as with all streaming, anybody in your league can decide to make your strategy tough to execute on, especially at the end of the year if you're in the hunt. I could see trying to lock a decent guy in in Aug. or September and riding him to the finish.

Would be tough to execute in a 2 catcher league and you also can't have a positional games played cap, obviously. And it needs to be a daily league.

One last thing is you do need to be active pretty around game time, checking probable line ups etc., in order to maximize your results. It's not a set it and forget strategy. But as I said in the other strategy forum, I like to pick a strategy that forces me to play tactical and find an edge. Just don't always have as much time to execute as I would like.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Oaktown, I appreciate your input. Didn't think I was revealing anything ground-breaking, just putting emphasis on what many have figured out.
Catcher is the one slot that can be streamed daily.
Not totally in agreement with 'can't hit.' Clearly they like to get their money's worth at the plate--swinging for the fences. The HR and R were excellent. The RBI pretty good. AND, yes, the average WILL suffer. If one's draft doesn't compensate for it, that MIGHT be enough of a reason to draft a catcher mid-rounds(but you are giving up those HR and R).
September: streamed Kratz, Doumit, Flowers, Kottaras, Salty, Martin, Grandal, J.Buck, Pierzynski. Got 7 HR.
Yes, should have clarified this was from ESPN RCL, one catcher.
I had the single-most moves in all of the 576 RCL teams. So, yes, I was active daily and monitoring last-minute lineups.
Believe me, I was very tempted to target Napoli again, with his sterling record at Fenway. However, having looked back at the streaming results I got, I simply cannot justify drafting a catcher--period. (I had no idea what the results were, until I dug them out the past few days.)
Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:41 pm 
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The more I look at this idea, the more I like it. Assuming you're in a 12 team one catcher league and everybody holds only one catcher, you might have a choice of guys like Arrencibia, Doumit, Salty, AJ Ellis, Martin, Jaso, Ianetta, and that's just C1's. Even if a couple of people block you, you still have reasonable selections who are starters. Thanks for your post, Fred.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:13 pm 
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I actually do this a lot. I find myself in every draft to never want to pick a catcher so always end up with a questionable guy. I don't stream them quite on a daily basis but it isn't crazy if I am doing it on a weekly basis.

I think it can work though it might have some drawbacks with avg and things like that. I play in mostly points leagues so it has very little negative value. Sometime you can run into a pretty quality C by doing this as well. Last year I ended grabbing Lucroy for a month or so before he got hurt.

So while I would be fine doing this, don't completely buy in unless the draft falls that way. If for instance Posey falls later than he should then don't hesitate to snag him. Sometimes owners forget about catchers and you can get a very solid one at a bargain price which is much better than streaming.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:29 pm 
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Ha! If you find owners on this sight that forget much of anything...

Yeah, think a lot of managers do this. Just sharing some measured results to support it.

Used to play public points leagues. Didn't take long to kinda dominate there. Also, the ones I was in were weekly changes. I thrive on the daily 'fun' of RCL.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:33 pm 
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I don't know if this directly ties in with the topic, but I've been doing something with catchers for the last few years. I've noticed that catchers often don't play day games after night games, and that is almost always the case on Sundays. in a daily league when you can add/drop as many times as possible, pick up a catcher the day before your catcher has a day game when he played the night before. but it's not just that easy because the catcher you pick up could also sit out day game/Sunday, so you have to do the research to know who to pick up. in 2010 this worked awesome for me because I owned Brian McCann and whenever the Braves were going to be having a day game I would pick up David Ross the night before. Ross was great that season in day games.
it doesn't always work out. sometimes the catcher you pick up can go 0-4 and hurt your AVG. but I've always felt like 1-4 with a R was better than your catcher not playing.
I've been finishing with single digits under in games played at catcher, while most people are something like 20+ in games played at catcher because catchers have so many off days.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:34 pm 
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I'm not hard core about this, but I do it. And sometimes you get lucky. I was basically able to get all of Rosario's 2nd half Coors stats by playing WW with him. Guys like Pierz can help the average, too. I frequently dominate my leagues in offensive games played and this is one of the reasons why. Middle Infidel is very streamable as well. Bottom line is that most C and MI pretty much suck anyway, so any little edge you can get makes a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:14 am 
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For April, I streamed 8 catchers:
11R/6HR/15RBI/0SB/.273AVG
Posey:
9R/3HR/14RBI/0SB/.280AVG

How you doin'?


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 Post subject: Re: Streaming Catcher...
PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:28 pm 
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Simply Fred wrote:
For April, I streamed 8 catchers:
11R/6HR/15RBI/0SB/.273AVG
Posey:
9R/3HR/14RBI/0SB/.280AVG

How you doin'?


Your plan of grabbing Napoli would have gotten you 13/4/27/0/0.269 so not a really strong argument. I've gotten 8/4/11/0/0.295 out of Pierzynski whom I'd gotten within the last couple of rounds along with a few other fill-ins from Buck and Martin recently I've probably matched or topped your numbers. I think it demonstrates your method is one way to skin a cat but you haven't shown it to be a better approach than grabbing a mid to late round guy once everyone else has gotten one and dump him for a hot schmoetato if he doesn't work out.

_________________
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RCL In Trout We Trust: Bosch Brothers
C-Pierzinski, 1B Goldy, 2B Cano, SS Castro, 3B Prado, MI Lowrie, CI Youk, OF Ellsbury, OF Morse, OF Aoki, OF Rios, OF Swisher, UT C. Johnson, DL Cespedes, BN Buck, BN Alonso
P's Scherzer, Samardzija, Ogando, Nathan, Perez, Hanrahan, Betancourt, Fujikawa (DL), Streamer, Streamer

12-Tm Mixed league(OBP): Three Out Rally
C-Perez, 1B Votto, 2B Rutledge, SS Castro, 3B Longoria, MI (rotating door), CI I. Davis, OF Jennings, OF Choo, OF Aioki, OF Morse, OF Cruz, UT Moss, UT Cain, BN Young Jr., BN Bonifacio, BN Schierholtz, BN J. Francisco
P's- Bumgarner, Zimmerman, Ryu, Estrada, Lincecum, Quintana, Chapman, Holland, Wilhelmsen, League, Francisco (DL)


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