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 Post subject: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:31 am 
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OK, so it's my turn to be Commish in a league I'm in with a lot of close friends every year. It's a 12 team league, and starting this year we finally convinced enough people to vote to make it a keeper league, so three players will be kept each season from here on out.

The trade is: Sam Bradford and Calvin Johnson for Josh Freeman, Steve Smith, and Asante Samuel (Yes, we use IDP).

The trade review system we're using this year is my own creation:

Quote:
TRADING RULES:
*Trades will be Commissioner's Decision.
That does NOT mean I decide whether or not a trade goes through. We did this last year and it worked out without any verb-that-rhymes-with-witch-ing or problems, so it ought to work out this year too.
The way it works is simple:
When a trade is made, if you don't like it, post on the message board and say why you don't like it. If you think the trade is fine, post on the message board and say why you think it's fine.

If a few people have a problem with a trade and have very strong reasons why it's not good, it gets vetoed. If the vast majority of a league has a problem with a trade, and the people making it don't both have very strong reasons why it's fine, it gets vetoed. If one person has a problem with a trade and nobody else does, but the one person has very strong reasons why it should be vetoed and nobody really has any reason why it's OK, then it might get vetoed.
Basically, we all know each other. Lets just talk out trades and figure out if they're unfair together. The league vote thing has too many problems. Lets look at those problems:

1. It's anonymous. You can vote against a trade and not have to come clean about it. It's frustrating if you do a trade you think is fair and it gets vetoed and nobody wants to tell you why they vetoed it or that they vetoed it at all.
2. If people don't check to vote, terrible trades could get through. In football, of all sports, where you only really have to check once a week, this is a huge problem.
3. You don't have to explain WHY you veto. You could literally vote against every trade that doesn't benefit your team and don't need a reason. Maybe you're just bored and click veto. That's not fair.


So to fix those, we post on the boards and then the Commish vetoes it if the league feels it should be vetoed and passes it through if the league feels it should be passed through. That way if you have a problem with a trade, you actually have to say what the problem is, and at the same time, people doing the trade have a chance to explain themselves.




Three managers have protested this trade... A defense has been given, but it's by the guy getting Calvin, who has pretty much spoke for the other guy. Personally I feel like it's an unwise move for the guy losing Calvin Johnson, and I do feel like he's being taken advantage of by his older cousin, who convinced him in our baseball league to trade him Joey Votto for Jose Reyes right after Reyes went on the DL... Because of there being a history of the one guy getting a much better deal than the other guy in trades, I feel like this trade was destined to be opposed regardless of what it was.

But while I feel it's unwise, I don't actually see it as unfair. Steve Smith will almost certainly not be as good as Calvin over the entire season and Josh Freeman shouldn't be that much better than Bradford, but that's not what vetoing trades is about.


Do I placate the managers trying to stop this trade from going through, or go ahead and allow it tomorrow night when I have to make my decision?

_________________

12 Team H2H, 4 unrestricted keepers
C - Mike Napoli
1B - Eric Hosmer
2B - Jedd Gyorko
3B - Todd Frazier
SS - Jhonny Peralta
OF - Ryan Braun
OF - Mike Trout
OF - Shin-Soo Choo
UTL - Brett Lawrie
UTL - Adam LaRoche
Bench - Austin Jackson
DL - Aaron Hill Hanley Ramirez

SP - Clayton Kershaw, Madison Bumgarner, Ubaldo Jimenez, Jhoulys Chacin, Ervin Santana
RP - Glen Perkins, Heath Bell, Jose Veras, Ernesto Fireri, Edward Mujica, Carlos Marmol, J.J. Putz

RCL - Cracking the WHIP - Admiral Trey
C - Yadier Molina
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Jose Altuve
3B - Jedd Gyorko
SS - Jimmy Rollins
MI - Everth Cabrera
CI - Justin Morneau
OF - Jason Heyward, Shin-Soo Choo, Michael Morse, Nick Swisher, Ben Revere
UTL - Kendrys Morales
Bench - Garrett Jones, David Freese


SP - Justin Verlander, Cliff Lee, Ryan Dempster, Ubaldo Jimenez
RP - Jonathan Papelbon, John Axford, Glen Perkins, Ryan Cook, David Robertson


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 am 
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Location: @BourneFantasy
Id say block it. More because of the history and relationship of the two.

_________________
RCL Cracking the Whip: (5x5 ESPN roto)
C: Weiters
1B,3B,CI: Encarnacion, Wright, Alanso
2B,SS,MI: Getz, Kozma, Uggla
5xOF: Kemp, Holliday, Hunter, Soriano, Crisp
1xUtil: Markakis
Bn: Hill, Aybar
DL: Hart
SP: MadBum, Zimmermann, Morrow, Annibal Sanchez, Lynn, Anderson
RP: League, Parnell, Benoit, Hernandez

12 team F&F: (6x6 Yahoo! H2H with OPS and Losses)
C: Cervelli
1B,3B,CI: Gold, Zimmerman, Frazier
2B,SS,MI: Phillips, Ruthledge, Bonifacio
4xOF: Braun, Hamilton, Cruz, Hunter
2xUtil: Chris Davis, Span
SP: Latos, Moore, Zimmermann, Niese, Milone, Griffin, Miller, Cingrani, ~Streamer~
RP: Holland, Janssen, Perkins, Bailey, Valverde
2xNA: Straily, Grandal


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:47 am 
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Posts: 1327
That would be a BS reason to block a trade, because the have a "relationship", if that is the case then you shouldn't allow them in the league together. Ask yourself if this was 2 different owners in your league would you even be considering a veto? The trade is a little unbalanced, but not completely unfair. You could always talk to the guy you feel is getting ripped off, and gauge his involvement and interest in the trade. But if he is just being dumb, then everyone in the league had equal opportunity to get megatron from him.

_________________
Rusty Trumbo My Pujols
C: Carlos Santana C, 1B
1B: Albert Pujols 1B
2B: Ian Kinsler 2B
SS: Ben Zobrist OF, 2B, SS
3B: Pablo Sandoval 3B
2B/SS: Brandon Phillips 2B
1B/3B: Adrian Gonzalez 1B
OF: Matt Kemp OF
OF: Gincarlo Stanton OF
OF: Michael Bourn OF
OF: Mark Trumbo OF, 1B
OF: Gerrardo Parra OF
Util: Mike Napoli C, 1B
DL: Curtis Granderson OF
Bench: Will Middlebrooks 3B
Bench: Jackie Bradley Jr. OF
Bench: Andrelton Simmons SS
Bench: Emilio Bonefacio OF
Ignore the lack of pitchers listed. I run with all closers, and it is constantly changing all year. It is a standard Espn 10 team.


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:21 am 
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Location: @BourneFantasy
Not everyone had an equal chance. That is the point. The fact he took a stud 1B for an injured player in baseball shows that these two can't get a legit trade.

If it was two random people it would be a very bad trade. I wouldn't block it, but I don't block bad trades. I block trades that have unsportsmanlike conduct involved. It sounds like it is here. That IS why you block a trade.
"If a few people have a problem with a trade and have very strong reasons why it's not good, it gets vetoed"

_________________
RCL Cracking the Whip: (5x5 ESPN roto)
C: Weiters
1B,3B,CI: Encarnacion, Wright, Alanso
2B,SS,MI: Getz, Kozma, Uggla
5xOF: Kemp, Holliday, Hunter, Soriano, Crisp
1xUtil: Markakis
Bn: Hill, Aybar
DL: Hart
SP: MadBum, Zimmermann, Morrow, Annibal Sanchez, Lynn, Anderson
RP: League, Parnell, Benoit, Hernandez

12 team F&F: (6x6 Yahoo! H2H with OPS and Losses)
C: Cervelli
1B,3B,CI: Gold, Zimmerman, Frazier
2B,SS,MI: Phillips, Ruthledge, Bonifacio
4xOF: Braun, Hamilton, Cruz, Hunter
2xUtil: Chris Davis, Span
SP: Latos, Moore, Zimmermann, Niese, Milone, Griffin, Miller, Cingrani, ~Streamer~
RP: Holland, Janssen, Perkins, Bailey, Valverde
2xNA: Straily, Grandal


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:29 am 
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Yeah, the history is the ONLY reason I'm considering vetoing it... Otherwise I'd just say the one manage is making a terrible mistake and then let him do it.

The problem is that every time these two teams have done deals, it's always been to fill a particular need that Team A needed. In addition to the one trade I mentioned, the full trade being Chris Ianetta (LOL) and Jose Reyes (on the DL) for Joey Votto and Alexei Ramirez, Team A also traded Chad Billingsley and Alexi Ogando for Team B's Josh Hamilton and Cole Hamels, and tried to trade Placido Polanco and Wandy Rodriguez for Yovani Gallardo, but that trade was vetoed as people noticed a trend.

We all know each other in the league, but we generally don't have problems with collusion because 1. We ALL know each other so we all would know the difference between someone making a bad trade and a BS trade and 2. We all want bragging rights and want to finish as high as we can. These two particular managers are new to the league, though, and are in my band, so they don't know everyone else in the league like we do as they've only hung out with them a few times at Atlanta Braves autograph signings, baseball games, or league meetings before draft time.

I don't want the league to feel like it's going to veto every trade that they do between each other because that wouldn't be fair, but letting them help each other out isn't exactly fair, either.


And I did talk to Team B's manager... He said that the reason he accepted the trade is because "Calvin and Bradford are both playing hurt". That's the only explanation given, and while technically I guess it's true, eh... I dunno.

_________________

12 Team H2H, 4 unrestricted keepers
C - Mike Napoli
1B - Eric Hosmer
2B - Jedd Gyorko
3B - Todd Frazier
SS - Jhonny Peralta
OF - Ryan Braun
OF - Mike Trout
OF - Shin-Soo Choo
UTL - Brett Lawrie
UTL - Adam LaRoche
Bench - Austin Jackson
DL - Aaron Hill Hanley Ramirez

SP - Clayton Kershaw, Madison Bumgarner, Ubaldo Jimenez, Jhoulys Chacin, Ervin Santana
RP - Glen Perkins, Heath Bell, Jose Veras, Ernesto Fireri, Edward Mujica, Carlos Marmol, J.J. Putz

RCL - Cracking the WHIP - Admiral Trey
C - Yadier Molina
1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Jose Altuve
3B - Jedd Gyorko
SS - Jimmy Rollins
MI - Everth Cabrera
CI - Justin Morneau
OF - Jason Heyward, Shin-Soo Choo, Michael Morse, Nick Swisher, Ben Revere
UTL - Kendrys Morales
Bench - Garrett Jones, David Freese


SP - Justin Verlander, Cliff Lee, Ryan Dempster, Ubaldo Jimenez
RP - Jonathan Papelbon, John Axford, Glen Perkins, Ryan Cook, David Robertson


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:47 pm
Posts: 99
The ONLY reason I would EVER veto a trade is evidence of collusion. If A feels like he is helping his team and B feels like he is helping his team, let it go. Part of the charm (did I just say charm? eh, oh well) of fantasy leagues is the art of making a trade. Maybe this guy is just bad at judging trades. It's not your job as League Manager to manage his team. If Freeman and Smith finished #1 at each of their positions at the end of the year, would you go back and retroactively allow the trade because the other guy thought he got the raw end of a deal?

My two cents...

_________________
16-team ESPN Standard Start: QB 2RB 2WR Flex TE DST K

QB: P Rivers
RB: M Forte, D McFadden, P Thomas, M Leshoure, K Moreno
WR: M Colston, E Decker, K Britt, B LaFell, R Cobb, S Hill
TE: D Pitta
DST: Buffalo
K: D Carpenter

10-team Yahoo! Razzball Start: QB 2RB 3WR TE DST K
QB: M Ryan, P Rivers
RB: L McCoy, M Turner, C Johnson J Rodgers, P Thomas, M LeShoure
WR: R White, B Marshall, M Colston, T Smith
TE: J Witten
DST: Seattle
K: S Gostkowski


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 Post subject: Re: Allow trade?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:05 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:57 pm
Posts: 415
I think this trade should go though. I could see either side winning it by season's end.

Be careful with vetoes. In my first year as baseball LM I vetoed an April David Wright for Adam Wainwright trade. Wright went on to hit 10 HR that season while Wainwright finished 3rd in the CY.

_________________
_________________________________



Baseball: 11 team 5x5

C: Salvador Perez
1B: Paul Goldschmidt
2B: Robinson Cano
SS: Josh Rutledge
3B: Nolan Arenado
2B/SS: Jean Segura
1B/3B: Yonder Alonso
OF: Adam Jones
OF: Yoenis Cespedes
OF: Shin-Soo Choo
OF: Lorenzo Cain
OF: Juan Pierre
UTIL: Matt Carpenter
BN: Ike Davis
DL: Giancarlo Stanton

P: Zack Greinke
P: Matt Moore
P: Jeff Samardjia
P: Greg Holland
P: Jason Grilli
P: Tom Wilhelmsen
P: Casey Janssen
P: Kenley Jansen
P: Junichi Tazawa
BN: Andrew Cashner
BN: Kyle Kendrick
BN: Brett Anderson



Basketball:

A WINNER IS YOU!

Football:

12 Team 0.5 PPR

2nd this year :(


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