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	<title>Comments on: Fantasy Baseball Projections Review &#8211; 2012</title>
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	<description>Fantasy Baseball Advice</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1846312</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2012 12:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1846312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ryan -
Thanks.  Send me the 2013 Mastersball projections before the season starts and I&#039;ll include them in next year&#039;s analysis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ryan -<br />
Thanks.  Send me the 2013 Mastersball projections before the season starts and I&#8217;ll include them in next year&#8217;s analysis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ryan Carey</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1845771</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Carey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2012 07:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1845771</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great work Rudy. Of course, I would like to see Mastersball.com&#039;s projections included next time to see how we rate (after all I did win the experts league using them). Let me know and this time next year and I will shoot you a set. It is worth noting that we had the earliest set of projections on the market last year (out before Christmas).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great work Rudy. Of course, I would like to see Mastersball.com&#8217;s projections included next time to see how we rate (after all I did win the experts league using them). Let me know and this time next year and I will shoot you a set. It is worth noting that we had the earliest set of projections on the market last year (out before Christmas).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1804539</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1804539</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Fantasy Cheapskate, I&#039;d rely on Steamer and perhaps just use FanGraphs and/or ESPN to identify hitters/pitchers with abnormally large differences.  (very helpful to identify a starter projected incorrectly as a reliever, etc.).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fantasy Cheapskate, I&#8217;d rely on Steamer and perhaps just use FanGraphs and/or ESPN to identify hitters/pitchers with abnormally large differences.  (very helpful to identify a starter projected incorrectly as a reliever, etc.).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Fantasy Cheapskate</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1804435</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy Cheapskate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1804435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Fantasy Cheapskate, sorry that should be FREE sources.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Fantasy Cheapskate, sorry that should be FREE sources.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Fantasy Cheapskate</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1804434</link>
		<dc:creator>Fantasy Cheapskate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1804434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Being a cheapskate trying to decide which playing time sources should I use for playing time. From the tables it looks like Streamer/Fans for plate appearance and Steamer/ESPN for Pitching?  

Am I reading that right?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being a cheapskate trying to decide which playing time sources should I use for playing time. From the tables it looks like Streamer/Fans for plate appearance and Steamer/ESPN for Pitching?  </p>
<p>Am I reading that right?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Kyle Boddy</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1798130</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Boddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Oct 2012 02:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1798130</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#2: If you average all the projection systems, you are likely to suffer from massive overfitting.

Great blog post!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#2: If you average all the projection systems, you are likely to suffer from massive overfitting.</p>
<p>Great blog post!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797739</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks.  i tried to write it in a way that made it clear how to read the results - even if the statistical part was confusing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks.  i tried to write it in a way that made it clear how to read the results &#8211; even if the statistical part was confusing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: beardcrabs</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797734</link>
		<dc:creator>beardcrabs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[your posts hurt my head (I believe in a good way)... I usually submit, look at the tables, and read the conclusion... But your work is a much appreciated circle change...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your posts hurt my head (I believe in a good way)&#8230; I usually submit, look at the tables, and read the conclusion&#8230; But your work is a much appreciated circle change&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797732</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797732</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Marcel (the baseline of projection services) factors in 3 years of past stats weighted so that the most recent year receives the highest weight.

In addition, most systems like Steamer, ZIPS, and BP convert minor league stats into MLE (major league equivalents).

So, as long as you use the right projection sources, the 2012 stats have already been factored into your results.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marcel (the baseline of projection services) factors in 3 years of past stats weighted so that the most recent year receives the highest weight.</p>
<p>In addition, most systems like Steamer, ZIPS, and BP convert minor league stats into MLE (major league equivalents).</p>
<p>So, as long as you use the right projection sources, the 2012 stats have already been factored into your results.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: For the Obsessives</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797693</link>
		<dc:creator>For the Obsessives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 19:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My initial thought is to average in 2012 actuals for rate stats (HR/AB) but quickly realized can&#039;t use them for playing time (e.g., Manny Machado = only 202 PA, 191 AB).  Would you even consider them for rate stats if you could exclude small sample sizes like Machado?  Say ... anything over X at bats?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My initial thought is to average in 2012 actuals for rate stats (HR/AB) but quickly realized can&#8217;t use them for playing time (e.g., Manny Machado = only 202 PA, 191 AB).  Would you even consider them for rate stats if you could exclude small sample sizes like Machado?  Say &#8230; anything over X at bats?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797515</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 16:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797515</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@DaBulls, Great question.  I initially was going to do this as a 2 year test but it ended up being too much work (and my 2011 projections weren&#039;t as complete).

Based on this test (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/), I think Steamer and CAIRO&#039;s pitching performance is no fluke.  I can only guess that Fantistics&#039; success isn&#039;t a fluke.  BP/PECOTA&#039;s performance in hitting/pitching in 2012 vs. 2011 seems fairly close as well (as in, I&#039;d consider it for hitting in 2013, not for pitching).

As for hitting performance (Test #2), the results are so close that I could imagine the order being very different for 2011.  My decision on sources for 2012 will likely come down to other factors like:  1) delivery time (Feb vs. March) and 2) completeness (FG Projections barely good enough for 12-team).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DaBulls, Great question.  I initially was going to do this as a 2 year test but it ended up being too much work (and my 2011 projections weren&#8217;t as complete).</p>
<p>Based on this test (<a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/</a>), I think Steamer and CAIRO&#8217;s pitching performance is no fluke.  I can only guess that Fantistics&#8217; success isn&#8217;t a fluke.  BP/PECOTA&#8217;s performance in hitting/pitching in 2012 vs. 2011 seems fairly close as well (as in, I&#8217;d consider it for hitting in 2013, not for pitching).</p>
<p>As for hitting performance (Test #2), the results are so close that I could imagine the order being very different for 2011.  My decision on sources for 2012 will likely come down to other factors like:  1) delivery time (Feb vs. March) and 2) completeness (FG Projections barely good enough for 12-team).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DaBulls</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797506</link>
		<dc:creator>DaBulls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks. Any idea what this looks like for previous years, and what the variability looks like from year to year? I know it&#039;s unfair because some of the sources (like Steamer) change their methodologies, but this would still get at whether there&#039;s something systematically better about Steamer, BP and Fantistics, or whether this was just a good year for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks. Any idea what this looks like for previous years, and what the variability looks like from year to year? I know it&#8217;s unfair because some of the sources (like Steamer) change their methodologies, but this would still get at whether there&#8217;s something systematically better about Steamer, BP and Fantistics, or whether this was just a good year for them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797505</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797505</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Based on these results and looking at some 2011 tests (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/), I&#039;m leaning towards Steamer/CAIRO for both hitting and pitching rates next year.  I like that Steamer and CAIRO release in February and then make some adjustments later in the pre-season.  I&#039;m still deciding on playing time - though I&#039;ve been satisfied over the past 2 years using Fantistics (debating whether it pays to pony up for BP).

AVG/OBP are already rates so no reason to touch those.  The easiest way to treat the other stats like rates might be to do the averaging of totals and then multiply those #s based on the PLAYING TIME SOURCED AB/IP / AVERAGED AB/IP.  So if your average ends up with 30 HRs in 600 ABs and the better playing time sources say 500 ABS, you multiply 30 * 500/600 and it&#039;s converted to 25 HRs.   The only stat I wouldn&#039;t treat as a rate stat is Saves.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on these results and looking at some 2011 tests (<a href="http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/testing-projections-for-2011/</a>), I&#8217;m leaning towards Steamer/CAIRO for both hitting and pitching rates next year.  I like that Steamer and CAIRO release in February and then make some adjustments later in the pre-season.  I&#8217;m still deciding on playing time &#8211; though I&#8217;ve been satisfied over the past 2 years using Fantistics (debating whether it pays to pony up for BP).</p>
<p>AVG/OBP are already rates so no reason to touch those.  The easiest way to treat the other stats like rates might be to do the averaging of totals and then multiply those #s based on the PLAYING TIME SOURCED AB/IP / AVERAGED AB/IP.  So if your average ends up with 30 HRs in 600 ABs and the better playing time sources say 500 ABS, you multiply 30 * 500/600 and it&#8217;s converted to 25 HRs.   The only stat I wouldn&#8217;t treat as a rate stat is Saves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: For the Obsessives</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797492</link>
		<dc:creator>For the Obsessives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 15:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797492</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got it ... no more sleeping around to ensure results.  Check!

My formulas are a combination.  I avg to get rates for pitchers (H/9, BB/9, K/9), but most stats are straight averages (W,Sv, IP/ERA and AB, R, HR, RBI, SB, Avg, OBP). Should I be utilizing that method on more of those stats?

As for the composite method (2 performance/2 playing time), I&#039;ve always given equal weighting.  Recommend a couple of each?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got it &#8230; no more sleeping around to ensure results.  Check!</p>
<p>My formulas are a combination.  I avg to get rates for pitchers (H/9, BB/9, K/9), but most stats are straight averages (W,Sv, IP/ERA and AB, R, HR, RBI, SB, Avg, OBP). Should I be utilizing that method on more of those stats?</p>
<p>As for the composite method (2 performance/2 playing time), I&#8217;ve always given equal weighting.  Recommend a couple of each?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797423</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, that&#039;s like a high school girl ensuring she&#039;s going to have an athletic baby by sleeping with 2/3 of the starting varsity football team.

First question, are you just averaging the totals (e.g., 20 HRs + 25 HRs + etc. / # of sources) or are you converting them into rates and applying vs a playing time projection (e.g., 0.05 HR/PA * 500 PAs)?

Assuming you are just averaging the projections, I&#039;d suggest re-channeling your efforts towards finding 2 performance sources and 2 playing time sources that you like/trust.  Given the minor lift in correlation from averaging 2 sources, I think any more than that is overkill (and more likely to hurt than help).  I think a straight averages vs. weighting each source is the easiest way to go - I&#039;d only use weights if it was early in the pre-season and you&#039;re forced to use a less accurate projection source. 

I think the best proxy for your crowdsourced method is the FantasyPros projections which performed quite well in Test #1.  While I think a composite method (2 performance/2 playing time) should beat it (it did in pitching in 2012 but FantasyPro&#039;s hitting projections were the best), I&#039;d probably just use FantasyPros if the alternative was averaging 14 separate sources.

One other note - I&#039;d also differentiate the efforts behind hitting and pitching.  I think crowdsourcing fares better for hitting (where the performance between systems was close) vs. pitching (where Steamer and, to a lesser extent, Fantistics, had a clear advantage).

Hope that helps...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, that&#8217;s like a high school girl ensuring she&#8217;s going to have an athletic baby by sleeping with 2/3 of the starting varsity football team.</p>
<p>First question, are you just averaging the totals (e.g., 20 HRs + 25 HRs + etc. / # of sources) or are you converting them into rates and applying vs a playing time projection (e.g., 0.05 HR/PA * 500 PAs)?</p>
<p>Assuming you are just averaging the projections, I&#8217;d suggest re-channeling your efforts towards finding 2 performance sources and 2 playing time sources that you like/trust.  Given the minor lift in correlation from averaging 2 sources, I think any more than that is overkill (and more likely to hurt than help).  I think a straight averages vs. weighting each source is the easiest way to go &#8211; I&#8217;d only use weights if it was early in the pre-season and you&#8217;re forced to use a less accurate projection source. </p>
<p>I think the best proxy for your crowdsourced method is the FantasyPros projections which performed quite well in Test #1.  While I think a composite method (2 performance/2 playing time) should beat it (it did in pitching in 2012 but FantasyPro&#8217;s hitting projections were the best), I&#8217;d probably just use FantasyPros if the alternative was averaging 14 separate sources.</p>
<p>One other note &#8211; I&#8217;d also differentiate the efforts behind hitting and pitching.  I think crowdsourcing fares better for hitting (where the performance between systems was close) vs. pitching (where Steamer and, to a lesser extent, Fantistics, had a clear advantage).</p>
<p>Hope that helps&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: For the Obsessives</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797405</link>
		<dc:creator>For the Obsessives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 14:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797405</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve crowdsourced my projections for several years, giving equal weight to 14 sources including Steamer, FP911, Zips, PECOTA, Fangraphs, Mastersball, et. al.  It&#039;s a massive excercise each year.  Are you saying it would be as accurate to use 3-4 or that perhaps I should give greater weight to one source or the other (depending on H or P)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve crowdsourced my projections for several years, giving equal weight to 14 sources including Steamer, FP911, Zips, PECOTA, Fangraphs, Mastersball, et. al.  It&#8217;s a massive excercise each year.  Are you saying it would be as accurate to use 3-4 or that perhaps I should give greater weight to one source or the other (depending on H or P)?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797376</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Vacation</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/fantasy-baseball-projections-review-2012/#comment-1797273</link>
		<dc:creator>Vacation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=31227#comment-1797273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeebus, well done Rudy!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeebus, well done Rudy!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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