Comments on: The Fantasy Baseball Hall of Fame, Closers http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/ Fantasy Baseball Advice Fri, 25 May 2012 05:52:15 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Lou http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7481 Lou Wed, 25 Jun 2008 16:54:00 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7481 @ Bob Percival is rung below the major closers in my opinion. Yes, he racked up the save totals but he has had two seasons with a WHIP under 1.00 and an ERA under 3.00. @ Bob
Percival is rung below the major closers in my opinion. Yes, he racked up the save totals but he has had two seasons with a WHIP under 1.00 and an ERA under 3.00.

]]> By: Bob http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7461 Bob Wed, 25 Jun 2008 15:24:31 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7461 Since there are closers in the HOF, as an Angels fan, I'd like to see Troy Percival on that list. So far, there's not a single Angel in the HOF wearing an Angels uni on his plaque. Ryan and Carew chose to use other team uni's, which is undertandable. Always a place in my heart for Percy, and BTW, he's now a classic crappy Razzball closer, although too crappy for me to own on any of my myriad of teams. One closer not on my list, the late Donnie (one more strike and we're in the World Series) Moore. Since there are closers in the HOF, as an Angels fan, I’d like to see Troy Percival on that list. So far, there’s not a single Angel in the HOF wearing an Angels uni on his plaque. Ryan and Carew chose to use other team uni’s, which is undertandable. Always a place in my heart for Percy, and BTW, he’s now a classic crappy Razzball closer, although too crappy for me to own on any of my myriad of teams. One closer not on my list, the late Donnie (one more strike and we’re in the World Series) Moore.

]]> By: Kyle James http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7446 Kyle James Wed, 25 Jun 2008 14:13:50 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7446 @<a href="#comment-7414" rel="nofollow">Lou</a>: Thanks for the follow-up. Thinking back that stretch when Smoltz was a closer was an elite stretch wasn't it? There were some guys putting up awesome numbers! Gagne won a Cy! I hate the Yankee's, but I'm really pulling for Mo to keep his numbers like this through the rest of the season. Not because I've got him on my fantasy team, but because it will be a great debate as the greatest season for a closer in the history of MLB! @Lou: Thanks for the follow-up. Thinking back that stretch when Smoltz was a closer was an elite stretch wasn’t it? There were some guys putting up awesome numbers! Gagne won a Cy!

I hate the Yankee’s, but I’m really pulling for Mo to keep his numbers like this through the rest of the season. Not because I’ve got him on my fantasy team, but because it will be a great debate as the greatest season for a closer in the history of MLB!

]]> By: Lou http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7432 Lou Wed, 25 Jun 2008 11:08:56 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7432 @Rainmain Thanks for your thoughts, I do appreciate it since closer scoring has a bit of subjectivity in it. Anyway, I agree with you to a point but at the same time there are many closers that rack up a fair amount of wins. To be considered a closer for a specific season in the FBHOF rankings, you either need to A) be in the Top 30 in saves or B) reach 15. Anyway, in the "fantasy era" there have been 39 closer seasons, not middle reliever seasons, but closers with 10 or more wins. And 204 seasons with 7 or more. This is obviously no where near what a starter can provide, but each year many closers do easily best the minimum win value. But point taken, there is a fine line in their somewhere, hope I didn't cross it! @Rainmain

Thanks for your thoughts, I do appreciate it since closer scoring has a bit of subjectivity in it. Anyway, I agree with you to a point but at the same time there are many closers that rack up a fair amount of wins. To be considered a closer for a specific season in the FBHOF rankings, you either need to A) be in the Top 30 in saves or B) reach 15.

Anyway, in the “fantasy era” there have been 39 closer seasons, not middle reliever seasons, but closers with 10 or more wins. And 204 seasons with 7 or more. This is obviously no where near what a starter can provide, but each year many closers do easily best the minimum win value.

But point taken, there is a fine line in their somewhere, hope I didn’t cross it!

]]> By: Grey http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7424 Grey Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:58:38 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7424 @<a href="#comment-7423" rel="nofollow">emayetee</a>: I don't think you're going to get much for Morrow. EDIT: Changed "with" to "for." @emayetee: I don’t think you’re going to get much for Morrow.

EDIT: Changed “with” to “for.”

]]> By: emayetee http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7423 emayetee Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:54:55 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7423 I think yous guys give head to head a bad rap... it's more fun on a week to week basis, and it makes better for rivalries n stuff. I kinda like that more luck is involved too... makes for better excuses and better my team is better than yours arguments. Anyway, im in an 8x8 H2H league (blasphemy) and punting saves. Can I get anything shopping Morrow now? Or should I just wait and see if Putz gets shelved? I think yous guys give head to head a bad rap… it’s more fun on a week to week basis, and it makes better for rivalries n stuff. I kinda like that more luck is involved too… makes for better excuses and better my team is better than yours arguments. Anyway, im in an 8×8 H2H league (blasphemy) and punting saves. Can I get anything shopping Morrow now? Or should I just wait and see if Putz gets shelved?

]]> By: RT http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7421 RT Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:24:57 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7421 Yeah, I hear ya... I'm just worried about being a bat short. Offense is good, but loaded with risks: Hamilton/Chipper/McLouth Yeah, I hear ya… I’m just worried about being a bat short. Offense is good, but loaded with risks: Hamilton/Chipper/McLouth

]]> By: Grey http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7420 Grey Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:22:58 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7420 @<a href="#comment-7418" rel="nofollow">RT</a>: I want Lackey's side. re: Burnett -- pitching with a ten run league helps. re: Sanchez -- He did look very good. @RT: I want Lackey’s side. re: Burnett — pitching with a ten run league helps. re: Sanchez — He did look very good.

]]> By: RT http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7418 RT Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:18:48 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7418 Thanks Grey. Trying to catch up after a long day of no baseball. re: the Lackey/Kepp vs Bruce/Headley deal.... Thoughts? I just noticed Burnett and Sanchez pitched their respective arses off tonight... Positive sign or luck? Thanks Grey. Trying to catch up after a long day of no baseball.

re: the Lackey/Kepp vs Bruce/Headley deal…. Thoughts? I just noticed Burnett and Sanchez pitched their respective arses off tonight… Positive sign or luck?

]]> By: Grey http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7417 Grey Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:11:24 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7417 @<a href="#comment-7416" rel="nofollow">RT</a>: I don't think either are going to be out long enough for that to happen. @RT: I don’t think either are going to be out long enough for that to happen.

]]> By: RT http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7416 RT Wed, 25 Jun 2008 04:04:22 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7416 Any thoughts on Nelson Cruz coming up with Hamilton and Bradley hurting? Any thoughts on Nelson Cruz coming up with Hamilton and Bradley hurting?

]]> By: RAINMAN http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7415 RAINMAN Wed, 25 Jun 2008 03:53:04 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7415 I agree with your premise that closers in particular don't really offer much fanasy value, so this may just be a useless intellectual thought (can a thought about fantasy/roto be intellectual?). But, I think your distinction between starters and closers ("incapabale" v "playing time") is off, if only slightly. To me, under this reasoning, closers are "incapabable" of getting Wins (a 5th category) just like starters can't get saves. Your rationale however would apply to relievers or middle relievers generally; but closers -- pitchers who come in with the lead -- by definition cannot get a win. (Yes, they can come into a tie came and get a win, but hey a starter can come in relief from time to time and poach a save -- eg extra inning games.) This may not have consequence in your (excellent analysis), but thought i'd point it out (hopefully without sounding nitpicky) I agree with your premise that closers in particular don’t really offer much fanasy value, so this may just be a useless intellectual thought (can a thought about fantasy/roto be intellectual?). But, I think your distinction between starters and closers (“incapabale” v “playing time”) is off, if only slightly. To me, under this reasoning, closers are “incapabable” of getting Wins (a 5th category) just like starters can’t get saves.

Your rationale however would apply to relievers or middle relievers generally; but closers — pitchers who come in with the lead — by definition cannot get a win. (Yes, they can come into a tie came and get a win, but hey a starter can come in relief from time to time and poach a save — eg extra inning games.)

This may not have consequence in your (excellent analysis), but thought i’d point it out (hopefully without sounding nitpicky)

]]> By: Lou http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7414 Lou Wed, 25 Jun 2008 02:22:18 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7414 @Kyle Gotta love Mo's 534 ERA+, it is quite sick for any age, let alone 38. As for Smoltz, in retrospect I have him very good as opposed to great. In 2001 the 55 saves were wonderful of course, but his 3.25 ERA and 1.03 WHIP were not historic. I have him rated as the 5th best closer. Remember, Gagne was unhittable that year, and Kim , Koch (11 wins!), and Nen outpaced him a bit. In 2003 he was 5th best again behind Gagne, Foulke, Wagner, and Rivera. It's a shame, but has to be considered when solely using Fantasy Baseball as a guide, but Smoltz didn't win a game this year and it makes a difference. Finally, in 2004 he was very good but not stellar (1.08 WHIP, 2.76 ERA). This was the year Brad Lidge went nuts to the tune of 157 K, 0.92 WHIP, 1.90 ERA). And Smoltz, again, didn't win a single game somehow. In all I have him rated the 4th best closer during the period he was at the job full time, behind Gagne, Foulke, and Wagner. Rivera would have passed him as well if not for his injury plagued 2002 season which held down his point totals. @Kyle

Gotta love Mo’s 534 ERA+, it is quite sick for any age, let alone 38.

As for Smoltz, in retrospect I have him very good as opposed to great. In 2001 the 55 saves were wonderful of course, but his 3.25 ERA and 1.03 WHIP were not historic. I have him rated as the 5th best closer. Remember, Gagne was unhittable that year, and Kim , Koch (11 wins!), and Nen outpaced him a bit.

In 2003 he was 5th best again behind Gagne, Foulke, Wagner, and Rivera. It’s a shame, but has to be considered when solely using Fantasy Baseball as a guide, but Smoltz didn’t win a game this year and it makes a difference.

Finally, in 2004 he was very good but not stellar (1.08 WHIP, 2.76 ERA). This was the year Brad Lidge went nuts to the tune of 157 K, 0.92 WHIP, 1.90 ERA). And Smoltz, again, didn’t win a single game somehow.

In all I have him rated the 4th best closer during the period he was at the job full time, behind Gagne, Foulke, and Wagner. Rivera would have passed him as well if not for his injury plagued 2002 season which held down his point totals.

]]> By: Kyle James http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7410 Kyle James Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:48:55 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7410 I know Smoltz made the hall as a Starter, but I'd be curious to see how his seasons as a closer stack up on this list. As far as the Eck sickness w/ that season have you seen <a href="http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=3240" rel="nofollow">Rivera's numbers this season</a>? If he can hold out the rest of the season he's in that same level of nastiness! He's on pace for a 82/6 K/BB ratio! I know Smoltz made the hall as a Starter, but I’d be curious to see how his seasons as a closer stack up on this list.

As far as the Eck sickness w/ that season have you seen Rivera’s numbers this season? If he can hold out the rest of the season he’s in that same level of nastiness! He’s on pace for a 82/6 K/BB ratio!

]]> By: Patrick DiCaprio http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7408 Patrick DiCaprio Wed, 25 Jun 2008 00:27:34 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7408 "Finally, and I openly admit it may be a blind spot to this old greenhorn’s way of thinking, but real Fantasy Baseball is Rotisserie style and not this fly by night, get lucky one week and unlucky the next, head-to-head junk that is so damn popular nowadays" Amen Brother!!!! Testify!!! “Finally, and I openly admit it may be a blind spot to this old greenhorn’s way of thinking, but real Fantasy Baseball is Rotisserie style and not this fly by night, get lucky one week and unlucky the next, head-to-head junk that is so damn popular nowadays”

Amen Brother!!!! Testify!!!

]]> By: Lou http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7395 Lou Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:30:27 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7395 Yeah, anyone who was called "...a well formed youth with a face like a dried apple." should at least get mention 100 years (appx) after he chucked a no-hitter in his rookie season. Wiki rocks. Yeah, anyone who was called “…a well formed youth with a face like a dried apple.” should at least get mention 100 years (appx) after he chucked a no-hitter in his rookie season.

Wiki rocks.

]]> By: Grey http://razzball.com/best-closers-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-7394 Grey Tue, 24 Jun 2008 20:04:04 +0000 http://razzball.com/?p=428#comment-7394 I'm convinced any half decent starter could save 40 games, but I don't think every closer could be a useful starter. Anyway, good to see Nick Maddox finally get his due. I’m convinced any half decent starter could save 40 games, but I don’t think every closer could be a useful starter. Anyway, good to see Nick Maddox finally get his due.

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