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	<title>Comments on: Alan Trammell, Barry Larkin &amp; Roberto Alomar, 2011 Hall of Fame</title>
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	<description>Fantasy Baseball Advice</description>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/#comment-520246</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Apr 2011 23:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=16560#comment-520246</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I think that Larkin is the best player, and by a considerable margin&quot;...your joking, you must be a reds fan, as for Robbie&#039;s D watch the highlights, count the gold gloves. He may have been a fickle guy but he is hte best 2b bar none.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think that Larkin is the best player, and by a considerable margin&#8221;&#8230;your joking, you must be a reds fan, as for Robbie&#8217;s D watch the highlights, count the gold gloves. He may have been a fickle guy but he is hte best 2b bar none.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulie Allnuts</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/#comment-359494</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulie Allnuts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 17:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=16560#comment-359494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@&lt;a href=&quot;http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359323&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rudy Gamble&lt;/a&gt;: I agree with everything in your post. I do know that Bill James, for one, agrees that Alomar&#039;s defense was overated. @&lt;a href=&quot;http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359233&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;big o&lt;/a&gt;: Ozzie is a no-brainer. Shortstops, and fielding in general, are perennially undervalued in the Hall of Fame voting. 
SS is the most important defensive player on the field. Given that no one played the position as well as the Wizard of Oz in the modern era - I wasn&#039;t around to see Honus Wagner - 13 Straight Gold Gloves doesn&#039;t tell you half the tale about his fielding. Also, from 1985-1989, Ozzie was in the top ten for WAR position players. Defensively, his WAR is 4th of all time.  7X&#039;s he was in the top ten in stolen bases, and is ranked 22nd of all time. He led the National League in assists 5 times, and is 2nd all time in assists for shortstops. The two players who are most similar to Smith were Luis Aparicio and Rabbit Maranville, both in the Hall.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359323" rel="nofollow">Rudy Gamble</a>: I agree with everything in your post. I do know that Bill James, for one, agrees that Alomar&#8217;s defense was overated. @<a href="http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359233" rel="nofollow">big o</a>: Ozzie is a no-brainer. Shortstops, and fielding in general, are perennially undervalued in the Hall of Fame voting.<br />
SS is the most important defensive player on the field. Given that no one played the position as well as the Wizard of Oz in the modern era &#8211; I wasn&#8217;t around to see Honus Wagner &#8211; 13 Straight Gold Gloves doesn&#8217;t tell you half the tale about his fielding. Also, from 1985-1989, Ozzie was in the top ten for WAR position players. Defensively, his WAR is 4th of all time.  7X&#8217;s he was in the top ten in stolen bases, and is ranked 22nd of all time. He led the National League in assists 5 times, and is 2nd all time in assists for shortstops. The two players who are most similar to Smith were Luis Aparicio and Rabbit Maranville, both in the Hall.</p>
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		<title>By: Rudy Gamble</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/#comment-359323</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudy Gamble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 14:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=16560#comment-359323</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@&lt;a href=&quot;http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359204&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Paulie Allnuts&lt;/a&gt;: Thanks Paulie.  I&#039;m planning to cap off this research with a &#039;Top Players not in the HOF&#039; post.  100% agree w/ you on Grich and Santo.

I think Larkin was the most complete player of the three but his career and peak values are about equal with Trammell.  I think it&#039;s a very close race and not one worth debating...unless Larkin makes it and Trammell doesn&#039;t (or Alomar makes it and the other two don&#039;t).  It&#039;s an interesting point on how much Trammell&#039;s defense was helped by Whitaker - just not sure how one could quantify the value of a solid MI partner.

Alomar and Jeter are an interesting comparison.  Only difference I&#039;d say is that most sportswriters agree that Jeter&#039;s defense is overrated.  Not so with Alomar...

@&lt;a href=&quot;http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359233&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;big o&lt;/a&gt;: Yup.  Ozzie&#039;s peak-adjusted WAR is #9 all-time amongst retired SS.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@<a href="http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359204" rel="nofollow">Paulie Allnuts</a>: Thanks Paulie.  I&#8217;m planning to cap off this research with a &#8216;Top Players not in the HOF&#8217; post.  100% agree w/ you on Grich and Santo.</p>
<p>I think Larkin was the most complete player of the three but his career and peak values are about equal with Trammell.  I think it&#8217;s a very close race and not one worth debating&#8230;unless Larkin makes it and Trammell doesn&#8217;t (or Alomar makes it and the other two don&#8217;t).  It&#8217;s an interesting point on how much Trammell&#8217;s defense was helped by Whitaker &#8211; just not sure how one could quantify the value of a solid MI partner.</p>
<p>Alomar and Jeter are an interesting comparison.  Only difference I&#8217;d say is that most sportswriters agree that Jeter&#8217;s defense is overrated.  Not so with Alomar&#8230;</p>
<p>@<a href="http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/comment-page-1/#comment-359233" rel="nofollow">big o</a>: Yup.  Ozzie&#8217;s peak-adjusted WAR is #9 all-time amongst retired SS.</p>
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		<title>By: big o</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/#comment-359233</link>
		<dc:creator>big o</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 12:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=16560#comment-359233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Ozzie was rightfully voted into the HOF &quot;

really ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Ozzie was rightfully voted into the HOF &#8221;</p>
<p>really ?</p>
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		<title>By: Paulie Allnuts</title>
		<link>http://razzball.com/alan-trammell-barry-larkin-roberto-alomar-2011-hall-of-fame/#comment-359204</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulie Allnuts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 10:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://razzball.com/?p=16560#comment-359204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks again, Rudy, for a wonderful series. You mention Bobby Grich, one of the most interesting and underated ballplayers, perhaps of all time. Perhaps you can do a post on him some time. Ron Santo, who I believe deserves to be in the Hall over every other candidate with the possible exception of Buck O&#039;Neil, who deserves induction for reasons other then his play on the field, is overlooked for similar reasons as Trammell and Larkin - Mike Schmidt and George Brett, possibly the two greatest ballplayers of all time, followed his career, putting up numbers which dwarfed Santo&#039;s. Yet he ranks above most third baseman in the Hall, and is at least the all-around equal of Brooks Robinson, his contemporary.

Out of the three candidates, I think that Larkin is the best player, and by a considerable margin. He was a complete player - he hit for average, power, had speed, and played excellent defense. Trammell ranks second, due to his superior defense, but perhaps his defensive edge has a lot to do with Lou Whittaker. I believe that they played more games as a 2nd/SS combo then any two players in history. You can hardly mention one without the other. He likely is a hair better then some other SS in the Hall, including Pee Wee Reese, Luis Aparicion, Lou Boudreau, and certainly Phil Rizzuto. 
Roberto Alomar reminds me of Derek Jeter. Both played for outstanding teams, elevating their batting totals, and giving them a bit higher value then they would have had, say, playing on the Montreal Expos. Their lifetime stats are comparable. Jeter&#039;s highest similarity score is Roberto Alomar, at 869; Barry Larkin is second, Trammell is 6th. Jeter&#039;s fielding, like Alomar&#039;s, has been overated. Trust me, I love watching Jeter, but his value is similar to those under discussion. I also observed Alomar when he was traded to the Mets; his slide from excellence to mediocrity was rapid indeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks again, Rudy, for a wonderful series. You mention Bobby Grich, one of the most interesting and underated ballplayers, perhaps of all time. Perhaps you can do a post on him some time. Ron Santo, who I believe deserves to be in the Hall over every other candidate with the possible exception of Buck O&#8217;Neil, who deserves induction for reasons other then his play on the field, is overlooked for similar reasons as Trammell and Larkin &#8211; Mike Schmidt and George Brett, possibly the two greatest ballplayers of all time, followed his career, putting up numbers which dwarfed Santo&#8217;s. Yet he ranks above most third baseman in the Hall, and is at least the all-around equal of Brooks Robinson, his contemporary.</p>
<p>Out of the three candidates, I think that Larkin is the best player, and by a considerable margin. He was a complete player &#8211; he hit for average, power, had speed, and played excellent defense. Trammell ranks second, due to his superior defense, but perhaps his defensive edge has a lot to do with Lou Whittaker. I believe that they played more games as a 2nd/SS combo then any two players in history. You can hardly mention one without the other. He likely is a hair better then some other SS in the Hall, including Pee Wee Reese, Luis Aparicion, Lou Boudreau, and certainly Phil Rizzuto.<br />
Roberto Alomar reminds me of Derek Jeter. Both played for outstanding teams, elevating their batting totals, and giving them a bit higher value then they would have had, say, playing on the Montreal Expos. Their lifetime stats are comparable. Jeter&#8217;s highest similarity score is Roberto Alomar, at 869; Barry Larkin is second, Trammell is 6th. Jeter&#8217;s fielding, like Alomar&#8217;s, has been overated. Trust me, I love watching Jeter, but his value is similar to those under discussion. I also observed Alomar when he was traded to the Mets; his slide from excellence to mediocrity was rapid indeed.</p>
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